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"start": 4321.3, "end": 4321.333, "seconds": 0.033 }, { "start": 4326.933, "end": 4326.966, "seconds": 0.033 } ], "issues": [ { "kind": "rolling_caption_prefix_removed", "index": 460, "token_count": 2 }, { "kind": "rolling_caption_prefix_removed", "index": 565, "token_count": 2 }, { "kind": "rolling_caption_no_new_words", "index": 1078 } ], "cues": [ { "id": 0, "start": 4.333, "end": 4.7, "text": "哈囉，大家好", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1, "start": 4.7, "end": 5.8, "text": "歡迎收聽科技浪", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 2, "start": 5.833, "end": 6.933, "text": "我是主持人哈利", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 3, "start": 6.966, "end": 9.833, "text": "科技浪是一個白話跟你聊科技的 Podcast", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 4, "start": 9.866, "end": 11.233, "text": "希望可以用簡單易懂", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 5, "start": 11.233, "end": 16.466, "text": "但是又深入的方式，帶你了解時下最火的科技話題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 6, "start": 16.5, "end": 19.366, "text": "本期節目由犀牛盾贊助播出", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 7, "start": 19.366, "end": 19.6, "text": "好", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 8, "start": 19.6, "end": 20.866, "text": "那過去這一週", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 9, "start": 20.9, "end": 23.733, "text": "就是算是蘋果發表會結束的第二週", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 10, "start": 23.766, "end": 27.0, "text": "就是有一些初步的評測都已經出來了嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 11, "start": 27.0, "end": 27.2, "text": "對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 12, "start": 27.2, "end": 30.533, "text": "我不知道大家看到這個 iPhone 18 Pro", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 13, "start": 30.566, "end": 32.6, "text": "有沒有決定要購買呢？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 14, "start": 32.633, "end": 33.633, "text": "當然", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 15, "start": 33.666, "end": 35.866, "text": "跟 17 Pro 比起來", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 16, "start": 35.9, "end": 39.6, "text": "確實沒有多少的更新，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 17, "start": 39.6, "end": 41.866, "text": "但我自己還是會換", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 18, "start": 41.866, "end": 45.8, "text": "因為我現在其實原本我的 iPhone", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 19, "start": 45.833, "end": 51.0, "text": "我有很多支手機，那 iPhone 就是有一支 17 Pro", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 20, "start": 51.033, "end": 54.3, "text": "它也算是我主要的手機之一", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 21, "start": 54.333, "end": 58.166, "text": "那我還是會想換成 18 Pro，是為什麼呢？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 22, "start": 58.166, "end": 61.5, "text": "其實，老實說啦，單純看這個", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 23, "start": 61.5, "end": 66.266, "text": "就目前看 CP 值，真的是沒有到那麼高，OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 24, "start": 66.566, "end": 68.333, "text": "就你換了之後，你得到什麼？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 25, "start": 68.433, "end": 74.466, "text": "就更好的電池續航跟晶片效能以及相機", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 26, "start": 74.5, "end": 76.966, "text": "那相機那邊就是有個可變光圈嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 27, "start": 77.0, "end": 77.7, "text": "對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 28, "start": 77.7, "end": 79.0, "text": "然後當然還有顏色啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 29, "start": 79.5, "end": 81.3, "text": "顏色對我來說還好啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 30, "start": 81.933, "end": 83.7, "text": "好，那你就得到這些嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 31, "start": 83.7, "end": 86.6, "text": "那這個真的值得你多花那一兩萬塊嗎？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 32, "start": 87.0, "end": 89.066, "text": "我覺得對於很多人來說", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 33, "start": 89.066, "end": 92.833, "text": "就現有的體驗來說是真的沒有到很值得，OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 34, "start": 93.066, "end": 97.333, "text": "然後我自己本人，就我目前的使用狀況呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 35, "start": 97.333, "end": 99.566, "text": "確實也真的沒有必要", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 36, "start": 99.6, "end": 101.966, "text": "就是多花這一筆錢這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 37, "start": 102.0, "end": 103.733, "text": "但我還是會換，是為什麼？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 38, "start": 104.566, "end": 107.766, "text": "因為我的想法是比較接近，我買了先放著", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 39, "start": 107.9, "end": 111.033, "text": "這個能力我覺得我未來會用到，我買了先放著", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 40, "start": 111.2, "end": 112.133, "text": "我現在還用不到", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 41, "start": 112.533, "end": 116.566, "text": "我們今天這集業配時間比較長一點", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 42, "start": 116.6, "end": 120.266, "text": "剛好願意跟大家分享一些我自己的想法", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 43, "start": 120.3, "end": 122.633, "text": "我們現在都還沒講到業配產品", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 44, "start": 123.166, "end": 127.0, "text": "反正我的想法就是，因為這個 iPhone 18 Pro", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 45, "start": 127.0, "end": 131.1, "text": "他們用了這個新的晶片，叫做 A20 Pro 的晶片嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 46, "start": 131.133, "end": 131.666, "text": "對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 47, "start": 131.666, "end": 134.433, "text": "它跟上一代 A19 Pro 比起來呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 48, "start": 134.466, "end": 137.9, "text": "當然就是在各方面的表現都有提升啊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 49, "start": 137.933, "end": 138.966, "text": "那他們 demo", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 50, "start": 138.966, "end": 141.866, "text": "很多打遊戲的散熱效果比較好啊等等的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 51, "start": 141.9, "end": 144.766, "text": "但那些評測員都沒有 demo 到的一點", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 52, "start": 144.766, "end": 146.633, "text": "是它的 AI 運算的表現", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 53, "start": 146.9, "end": 150.266, "text": "它的 AI 運算表現不是提升一點點而已喔", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 54, "start": 150.266, "end": 151.5, "text": "提升非常多喔", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 55, "start": 151.566, "end": 155.833, "text": "我看有一個網友發了他的測試在 X 上面", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 56, "start": 155.833, "end": 160.9, "text": "他是跑 On-Device 的 Apple Foundation Model", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 57, "start": 160.933, "end": 165.733, "text": "他發現一個長 prompt 的 time to first token", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 58, "start": 165.733, "end": 170.633, "text": "直接從 A19 Pro 的 2000 多毫秒變成 1000 毫秒", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 59, "start": 170.666, "end": 172.533, "text": "直接砍半", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 60, "start": 172.533, "end": 174.666, "text": "整個 time to first token 都快非常多", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 61, "start": 174.9, "end": 178.866, "text": "當然，我知道很多人就會說，蘋果根本就沒有 AI", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 62, "start": 178.9, "end": 180.633, "text": "那你現在買來放著有什麼用？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 63, "start": 180.633, "end": 183.533, "text": "我覺得快了啦，真的快了啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 64, "start": 183.7, "end": 185.166, "text": "你聽我們之前在分析", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 65, "start": 185.166, "end": 187.266, "text": "Apple Intelligence 的那幾集", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 66, "start": 187.3, "end": 189.7, "text": "Apple Foundation Model 的那幾集", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 67, "start": 189.7, "end": 194.766, "text": "你就會知道蘋果在這邊已經有在做準備了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 68, "start": 194.8, "end": 197.4, "text": "尤其像這個更強的 Siri，iOS 27", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 69, "start": 197.433, "end": 201.0, "text": "其實我不知道這個中文版到底什麼時候會推出", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 70, "start": 201.0, "end": 202.766, "text": "但我覺得", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 71, "start": 202.766, "end": 204.566, "text": "如果推出的時候", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 72, "start": 204.6, "end": 209.1, "text": "大家中文版用到的是接近英文版的這種滿血狀態的話", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 73, "start": 209.1, "end": 210.2, "text": "會很有感啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 74, "start": 210.233, "end": 210.433, "text": "真的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 75, "start": 210.466, "end": 211.766, "text": "那如果你已經準備好", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 76, "start": 211.766, "end": 213.633, "text": "要下單 iPhone 18 Pro 了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 77, "start": 213.666, "end": 215.3, "text": "手機殼也必須先準備好", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 78, "start": 215.3, "end": 218.566, "text": "那這次要跟大家介紹我最近最喜歡的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 79, "start": 218.6, "end": 220.133, "text": "這個太空級防摔", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 80, "start": 220.133, "end": 222.8, "text": "犀牛盾 AirX 極致氣墊緩衝殼", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 81, "start": 222.8, "end": 225.666, "text": "那 AirX 的防護到底有多強呢？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 82, "start": 225.7, "end": 229.4, "text": "你知道犀牛盾他們把 AirX 送到瑞典太空中心", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 83, "start": 229.4, "end": 232.733, "text": "進行超過三萬公尺近太空高度的摔落測試", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 84, "start": 232.766, "end": 233.8, "text": "你沒聽錯喔", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 85, "start": 233.833, "end": 235.0, "text": "三萬公尺", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 86, "start": 235.0, "end": 239.8, "text": "那它經歷了，這個手機包著殼，經歷了極致低溫", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 87, "start": 239.833, "end": 243.533, "text": "真空環境跟高空落下來的衝擊之後呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 88, "start": 243.533, "end": 246.166, "text": "手機竟然還可以正常使用", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 89, "start": 246.166, "end": 248.8, "text": "這個是創下了全新的世界紀錄的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 90, "start": 248.833, "end": 251.3, "text": "那 AirX 可以做到這件事情呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 91, "start": 251.333, "end": 255.133, "text": "關鍵就在於 AirX 裡面有 360 度的包覆式氣囊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 92, "start": 255.133, "end": 258.7, "text": "搭配了這個犀牛盾獨家的內傷防護複合系統", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 93, "start": 258.733, "end": 261.933, "text": "可以把摔落瞬間的衝擊力給分散吸收掉", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 94, "start": 261.933, "end": 262.966, "text": "那你可以想像", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 95, "start": 263.0, "end": 265.533, "text": "就是我們幫手機裝上了一圈安全氣囊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 96, "start": 265.533, "end": 268.466, "text": "可以降低摔落的受損機會", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 97, "start": 268.466, "end": 269.733, "text": "如果你挑手機殼", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 98, "start": 269.766, "end": 271.6, "text": "也很在意顏色跟手感的話", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 99, "start": 271.633, "end": 276.1, "text": "可以看看犀牛盾的 SolidX 強化吸震緩衝殼", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 100, "start": 276.1, "end": 277.533, "text": "這個 SolidX", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 101, "start": 277.566, "end": 282.033, "text": "它的霧透系列可以透出 iPhone 本身的顏色", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 102, "start": 282.066, "end": 285.733, "text": "很百搭，再加上它很細緻的磨砂質感", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 103, "start": 285.733, "end": 287.233, "text": "摸起來很舒服", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 104, "start": 287.233, "end": 289.8, "text": "也抗污耐髒。內側四個角落", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 105, "start": 289.833, "end": 291.2, "text": "也是有緩衝槽的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 106, "start": 291.233, "end": 294.866, "text": "所以它的外型跟防護都有顧到", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 107, "start": 294.866, "end": 298.1, "text": "也很好拆裝。另外也有其他的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 108, "start": 298.133, "end": 300.666, "text": "像是主打終身抗黃保固", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 109, "start": 300.7, "end": 305.333, "text": "如果變黃了，可以免費換新的 Clear 透明殼系列", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 110, "start": 305.333, "end": 309.1, "text": "以及全新的裸機感 Bumper 邊框殼", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 111, "start": 309.133, "end": 312.966, "text": "連螢幕、鏡頭保護都可以一起備齊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 112, "start": 313.0, "end": 314.933, "text": "現在購買任何一款手機殼", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 113, "start": 314.933, "end": 316.8, "text": "保護貼還有限時 7 折起", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 114, "start": 317.6, "end": 319.2, "text": "舊殼也不要急著丟", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 115, "start": 319.233, "end": 321.4, "text": "犀牛盾現在有 RHINOLOOP", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 116, "start": 321.4, "end": 323.566, "text": "手機殼回收計畫的大進化", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 117, "start": 323.566, "end": 326.466, "text": "加入官方會員，完成手機驗證", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 118, "start": 326.466, "end": 328.533, "text": "再啟動舊殼回收的話", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 119, "start": 328.566, "end": 331.1, "text": "新殼就可以折抵 500 塊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 120, "start": 331.1, "end": 333.766, "text": "那或是你在官網結帳的時候呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 121, "start": 333.8, "end": 335.9, "text": "輸入我們哈利的折扣碼", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 122, "start": 335.9, "end": 340.333, "text": "這個科技浪的限時折扣碼 i18-harry，小寫的 i", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 123, "start": 340.333, "end": 344.133, "text": "然後 18，然後 dash harry，都是小寫的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 124, "start": 344.166, "end": 347.666, "text": "這個我們在本集資訊欄也會提供折扣碼", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 125, "start": 347.666, "end": 351.766, "text": "你就可以訂單直接滿 700 塊，現折 100 塊，OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 126, "start": 352.166, "end": 355.466, "text": "所以這個連結跟折扣碼都放在節目的資訊欄", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 127, "start": 356.033, "end": 359.2, "text": "準備換新 iPhone 的朋友，可以記得去看看", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 128, "start": 359.233, "end": 361.433, "text": "來幫新手機先把防護給準備好", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 129, "start": 361.8, "end": 363.933, "text": "本集業配就到這邊結束，謝謝犀牛盾的贊助", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 130, "start": 364.333, "end": 368.4, "text": "各位，我們必須得來聊聊 Jev，J-E-V，Jev", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 131, "start": 368.433, "end": 370.666, "text": "過去這三天的社群媒體", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 132, "start": 370.666, "end": 372.666, "text": "不管是 X 還是 Threads", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 133, "start": 372.7, "end": 375.7, "text": "全部都是 Jev，怎麼滑都是看到 Jev", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 134, "start": 375.733, "end": 379.866, "text": "十篇裡面至少七八篇都是 Jev，如果你不知道的話", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 135, "start": 379.866, "end": 384.6, "text": "這個 Jev 是過去這一週 AI 圈最大的一個新聞", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 136, "start": 384.6, "end": 388.7, "text": "所有人都在討論的一個新的 AI 模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 137, "start": 388.733, "end": 392.533, "text": "那它是由一間叫做 TypeSafe AI 的公司在上禮拜推出的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 138, "start": 393.0, "end": 395.1, "text": "那你如果沒有聽過 TypeSafe AI 這間公司", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 139, "start": 395.1, "end": 395.966, "text": "其實非常正常啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 140, "start": 395.966, "end": 399.066, "text": "因為他們基本上在上禮拜之前是", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 141, "start": 399.066, "end": 401.333, "text": "沒有人聽過的一間公司", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 142, "start": 401.366, "end": 402.966, "text": "他們 2024 年成立", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 143, "start": 402.966, "end": 406.366, "text": "但是兩年的時間他們都是在低調打造產品", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 144, "start": 406.366, "end": 408.666, "text": "就是 Stealth Mode 這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 145, "start": 409.3, "end": 415.4, "text": "那在上禮拜他們才終於就是推出他們的第一個模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 146, "start": 415.4, "end": 418.866, "text": "然後就也讓大家了解知道他們這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 147, "start": 418.9, "end": 423.4, "text": "那這模型一出來，馬上就是全網爆紅啊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 148, "start": 423.433, "end": 426.466, "text": "整個 AI 圈子沒有任何其他 topic", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 149, "start": 426.5, "end": 429.833, "text": "大家都在講 Jev，那為什麼會這麼紅呢？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 150, "start": 429.866, "end": 432.633, "text": "就是現在 AI 模型整天都在推出嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 151, "start": 432.633, "end": 435.066, "text": "就是每個禮拜都有新模型推出來", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 152, "start": 435.1, "end": 438.433, "text": "為什麼這個模型會得到這麼多關注？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 153, "start": 438.466, "end": 442.566, "text": "首先，最主要的原因是因為它不是一般的 AI 模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 154, "start": 442.866, "end": 445.566, "text": "它不是一個 chatbot，也不是一個 AI agent", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 155, "start": 445.566, "end": 447.4, "text": "它是一個 TypeSafe 把它稱作", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 156, "start": 447.433, "end": 448.933, "text": "System 1 model 的模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 157, "start": 449.366, "end": 450.766, "text": "好，那你聽這個名字", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 158, "start": 450.8, "end": 452.766, "text": "原本你第一次看到就覺得，哇", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 159, "start": 452.8, "end": 455.0, "text": "好像很炫砲耶，好像很神秘耶！", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 160, "start": 455.033, "end": 458.066, "text": "什麼叫做 System 1 model？感覺好像很厲害", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 161, "start": 458.066, "end": 461.3, "text": "然後你往下繼續看他們的這個宣傳文呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 162, "start": 461.3, "end": 462.9, "text": "你會覺得越看越扯", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 163, "start": 462.933, "end": 465.2, "text": "他們講了很多東西，像是說", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 164, "start": 465.233, "end": 468.033, "text": "Jev 這個模型呢，是不會有幻覺的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 165, "start": 468.066, "end": 472.6, "text": "Zero Hallucinations，這個原本應該是 AI 模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 166, "start": 472.6, "end": 476.866, "text": "這個 LLM 模型的一個致命痛點的幻覺問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 167, "start": 476.9, "end": 478.433, "text": "他們竟然沒有", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 168, "start": 478.433, "end": 479.333, "text": "然後還寫", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 169, "start": 479.366, "end": 483.6, "text": "它的速度跟成本都是遠遠勝過現在的大型語言模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 170, "start": 484.033, "end": 485.066, "text": "速度快多少倍？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 171, "start": 485.466, "end": 489.0, "text": "不是快一倍兩倍，是快兩百倍", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 172, "start": 489.533, "end": 491.166, "text": "然後成本呢？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 173, "start": 491.2, "end": 492.6, "text": "便宜四百倍", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 174, "start": 493.1, "end": 495.1, "text": "哇，看到這邊你真的會覺得說", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 175, "start": 495.133, "end": 497.0, "text": "這個模型到底是何方神聖啊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 176, "start": 497.3, "end": 499.166, "text": "你就忍不住想要去研究它嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 177, "start": 499.633, "end": 501.166, "text": "那這是它爆紅的第一個原因", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 178, "start": 501.533, "end": 502.9, "text": "它還有另外一個原因", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 179, "start": 503.233, "end": 505.033, "text": "就是它的 Founder", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 180, "start": 505.033, "end": 508.666, "text": "TypeSafe AI 的 CEO，其實背景很硬喔", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 181, "start": 508.8, "end": 511.2, "text": "他的名字叫做 Diogo Almeida", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 182, "start": 511.233, "end": 512.966, "text": "是一個蠻騷包的 CEO", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 183, "start": 513.633, "end": 517.266, "text": "因為他去參加一些演講啊，Event", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 184, "start": 517.3, "end": 521.5, "text": "都會穿著一個粉色的那種羽絨大衣，OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 185, "start": 522.066, "end": 524.166, "text": "就很亮的很亮的那種粉色", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 186, "start": 524.6, "end": 527.533, "text": "就有點像是那個 One Piece 的那個 Doflamingo 那樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 187, "start": 527.933, "end": 530.6, "text": "那反正，他的技術底子真的很硬喔", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 188, "start": 530.9, "end": 533.7, "text": "他是 ChatGPT 的共同發明者之一", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 189, "start": 534.266, "end": 535.8, "text": "差不多 2022 年", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 190, "start": 535.8, "end": 537.933, "text": "OpenAI 在研究怎麼把", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 191, "start": 537.933, "end": 542.033, "text": "GPT-3 這種只會做文字接龍的大型語言模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 192, "start": 542.033, "end": 544.033, "text": "變成是一個 chatbot", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 193, "start": 544.033, "end": 549.833, "text": "像是 ChatGPT 這種會跟你一來一往地聊天的模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 194, "start": 549.866, "end": 551.8, "text": "那這背後最核心的技術呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 195, "start": 552.566, "end": 555.733, "text": "就是後訓練，就是 RLHF 的這些技術", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 196, "start": 555.766, "end": 559.6, "text": "就是 Diogo Almeida 當時在 OpenAI 研究的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 197, "start": 559.8, "end": 561.933, "text": "他們甚至後來出了一篇論文", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 198, "start": 561.966, "end": 563.933, "text": "然後這個 Diogo Almeida", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 199, "start": 563.966, "end": 566.1, "text": "是那篇論文的主要作者之一", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 200, "start": 566.266, "end": 568.9, "text": "所以這整件事就是一個完美頭條嘛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 201, "start": 569.4, "end": 569.633, "text": "哇", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 202, "start": 569.633, "end": 571.766, "text": "這個 ChatGPT 的共同發明者之一", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 203, "start": 571.8, "end": 573.733, "text": "竟然推出了一個 AI 模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 204, "start": 573.733, "end": 576.6, "text": "比現在的模型快兩百倍", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 205, "start": 576.6, "end": 578.333, "text": "然後還便宜四百倍", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 206, "start": 578.366, "end": 581.4, "text": "然後還永遠不會產生幻覺。哇！", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 207, "start": 581.4, "end": 583.7, "text": "天翻地覆，世界要改變啦！", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 208, "start": 583.733, "end": 585.766, "text": "那當然啦，就一如既往", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 209, "start": 585.766, "end": 590.2, "text": "其實很多這些 marketing 的講法都是比較偏炒作啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 210, "start": 590.233, "end": 594.266, "text": "其實事實的狀況就是，天下沒有白吃的午餐", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 211, "start": 594.266, "end": 594.566, "text": "好", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 212, "start": 594.6, "end": 597.033, "text": "你今天要做到我們剛剛講的那三件事情呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 213, "start": 597.066, "end": 600.933, "text": "你勢必要犧牲一點你們模型能夠做到的事", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 214, "start": 600.933, "end": 603.533, "text": "那聽完今天這集 podcast 呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 215, "start": 603.566, "end": 607.533, "text": "你就會完全理解 Jev 這個模型它到底是什麼", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 216, "start": 607.533, "end": 609.166, "text": "它的運作原理又是什麼", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 217, "start": 609.2, "end": 611.6, "text": "它的應用場景可以應用在哪些地方", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 218, "start": 611.6, "end": 613.266, "text": "能夠解決哪些問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 219, "start": 613.266, "end": 617.066, "text": "然後哪些場景是沒有辦法取代現在的 LLM 的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 220, "start": 617.1, "end": 619.266, "text": "以及它的實測狀況如何", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 221, "start": 619.7, "end": 621.7, "text": "我自己也有簡單地去測試一下", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 222, "start": 622.166, "end": 624.366, "text": "然後最後我覺得也是非常重要的一點", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 223, "start": 624.4, "end": 625.433, "text": "就是 So what？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 224, "start": 625.633, "end": 628.366, "text": "有了 Jev 之後，又會發生什麼事情？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 225, "start": 628.633, "end": 631.866, "text": "這對於現在的 AI agent 的意義究竟是什麼？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 226, "start": 632.3, "end": 636.666, "text": "我覺得 Jev 當然不像是很多的文章一樣", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 227, "start": 636.7, "end": 638.6, "text": "講得會改變世界", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 228, "start": 638.6, "end": 644.133, "text": "但是它確實，必須說，是一個重要的技術趨勢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 229, "start": 644.166, "end": 646.0, "text": "它確實是會改變一些事情", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 230, "start": 646.533, "end": 647.733, "text": "好，那首先呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 231, "start": 647.733, "end": 650.766, "text": "我們就先從 Jev 到底是什麼開始聊起", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 232, "start": 651.3, "end": 653.633, "text": "好，那當然這個 TypeSafe AI 是把它稱作", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 233, "start": 653.633, "end": 655.666, "text": "一個 System 1 model 嘛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 234, "start": 656.1, "end": 657.566, "text": "好，但你直接這樣子講", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 235, "start": 657.566, "end": 659.3, "text": "沒有人會知道它是什麼的啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 236, "start": 659.6, "end": 662.6, "text": "好，其實一個最精準的講法", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 237, "start": 662.633, "end": 664.166, "text": "我會把它稱作一個", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 238, "start": 664.166, "end": 668.3, "text": "LLM-based general-purpose classification model", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 239, "start": 668.333, "end": 672.766, "text": "中文可以翻成基於大型語言模型的通用分類模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 240, "start": 672.766, "end": 675.166, "text": "OK，那當然我知道 TypeSafe AI", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 241, "start": 675.2, "end": 677.9, "text": "他們官方絕對不會認同這樣子的定義", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 242, "start": 677.933, "end": 681.566, "text": "因為他們就是很明顯地想要跟 LLM 切割嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 243, "start": 681.566, "end": 682.866, "text": "然後做出差別", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 244, "start": 682.9, "end": 684.766, "text": "才會把它叫做 System 1 model", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 245, "start": 684.8, "end": 687.133, "text": "但是我覺得最精準的講法應該是這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 246, "start": 687.166, "end": 688.466, "text": "我自己認為", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 247, "start": 688.466, "end": 691.966, "text": "那當然這一句話聽起來很長很複雜", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 248, "start": 692.0, "end": 693.766, "text": "很多人可能一時之間沒有辦法", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 249, "start": 693.766, "end": 695.133, "text": "完全理解它是什麼意思", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 250, "start": 695.166, "end": 696.9, "text": "所以我們把它 break down", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 251, "start": 696.933, "end": 699.166, "text": "我們把它拆出幾個重要的觀念來看", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 252, "start": 699.166, "end": 700.3, "text": "先看最後一句喔", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 253, "start": 700.333, "end": 703.6, "text": "Jev 是一個 classification model 分類模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 254, "start": 703.633, "end": 706.166, "text": "意思就是說它只能做分類工作", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 255, "start": 706.166, "end": 708.966, "text": "它不能產生文字、圖片或是程式碼", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 256, "start": 709.0, "end": 711.233, "text": "這邊其實就是跟一般的這些", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 257, "start": 711.266, "end": 714.866, "text": "AI agent、AI chatbot 很不一樣的地方嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 258, "start": 714.866, "end": 715.766, "text": "對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 259, "start": 715.8, "end": 717.466, "text": "所謂的分類工作呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 260, "start": 717.466, "end": 721.7, "text": "就真的是針對一個情況或是一個物件去幫它做分類", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 261, "start": 721.733, "end": 724.5, "text": "就比如說你拿到一個客服的訊息", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 262, "start": 724.5, "end": 726.533, "text": "一個客人的抱怨的訊息", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 263, "start": 726.566, "end": 728.4, "text": "那你要根據這個訊息", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 264, "start": 728.4, "end": 731.366, "text": "分辨它究竟是一個技術相關的問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 265, "start": 731.366, "end": 732.833, "text": "還是一個帳務相關的問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 266, "start": 732.866, "end": 734.166, "text": "還是一個物流相關的問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 267, "start": 734.2, "end": 734.866, "text": "等等", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 268, "start": 734.9, "end": 739.8, "text": "或者是根據目前你看到的這一則 email 的內容呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 269, "start": 739.833, "end": 742.9, "text": "去判斷它是不是釣魚信件", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 270, "start": 742.933, "end": 745.8, "text": "OK，就兩種可能而已，是或是不是", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 271, "start": 745.8, "end": 752.466, "text": "或者是根據履歷的內容以及你的徵才標準", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 272, "start": 752.466, "end": 757.233, "text": "去判斷這個應徵者跟我們職缺的適合程度有幾分", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 273, "start": 757.266, "end": 759.733, "text": "1 到 5 分，究竟有幾分這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 274, "start": 759.766, "end": 763.366, "text": "好，那像這類型的工作呢，就是 Jev 在做的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 275, "start": 763.366, "end": 766.133, "text": "而且 Jev 也只能做這類型的工作", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 276, "start": 766.166, "end": 769.1, "text": "它不會產生文字，也不會產生圖片，好", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 277, "start": 769.1, "end": 772.9, "text": "你今天就是丟給它一個你要判斷的情況", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 278, "start": 772.933, "end": 776.333, "text": "以及這個情況之下你目前的選項有哪些", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 279, "start": 776.333, "end": 779.2, "text": "然後 Jev 就會直接吐給你一串機率分布", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 280, "start": 779.233, "end": 781.033, "text": "好，這個機率分布呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 281, "start": 781.066, "end": 783.966, "text": "就是你給它的選項當中的機率分布", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 282, "start": 783.966, "end": 784.333, "text": "OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 283, "start": 784.366, "end": 786.366, "text": "比如說 A 選項幾% 的機率", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 284, "start": 786.366, "end": 789.266, "text": "B 選項幾% 的機率，C 選項幾% 這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 285, "start": 789.3, "end": 792.133, "text": "像是你丟給它一個客服的訊息，內容就是說", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 286, "start": 792.166, "end": 795.333, "text": "「我想知道一下我的包裹目前的進度。」", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 287, "start": 795.333, "end": 799.8, "text": "那你下面就寫出，你現在要問的問題是", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 288, "start": 799.8, "end": 802.5, "text": "請問這個客服的訊息呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 289, "start": 802.533, "end": 804.766, "text": "它是哪一個類別的問題？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 290, "start": 804.8, "end": 807.4, "text": "然後下面有 A 選項：帳務", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 291, "start": 807.4, "end": 810.3, "text": "B 選項：技術，C 選項：物流", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 292, "start": 810.333, "end": 814.3, "text": "D 選項……然後你把這整坨東西丟給 Jev", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 293, "start": 814.3, "end": 817.2, "text": "Jev 就會吐一個機率分布給你", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 294, "start": 817.233, "end": 820.566, "text": "比如說帳務機率 2%，技術機率 1%", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 295, "start": 820.6, "end": 822.466, "text": "然後物流機率 92%", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 296, "start": 822.466, "end": 825.7, "text": "然後其他選項機率幾%、幾%、幾%", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 297, "start": 825.733, "end": 829.066, "text": "你透過這個機率分布就可以看到說", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 298, "start": 829.066, "end": 833.766, "text": "Jev 認為這個問題有 92% 的機會是跟物流相關的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 299, "start": 833.766, "end": 835.0, "text": "所以說，好", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 300, "start": 835.033, "end": 838.333, "text": "這個，八成這個問題就是物流的問題這樣", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 301, "start": 838.366, "end": 841.833, "text": "好，你覺得 Jev 可以幫你很快地去做出這個判斷", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 302, "start": 842.0, "end": 845.033, "text": "然後同時，Jev 也不只是一個單純的分類模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 303, "start": 845.033, "end": 847.4, "text": "它是一個通用的分類模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 304, "start": 847.433, "end": 849.733, "text": "一個 general-purpose classification model", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 305, "start": 849.733, "end": 851.066, "text": "那這句話在講的呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 306, "start": 851.1, "end": 853.366, "text": "就是同樣一個 Jev 模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 307, "start": 853.4, "end": 856.566, "text": "可以解決各式各樣不同的分類問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 308, "start": 856.566, "end": 856.666, "text": "OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 309, "start": 856.8, "end": 861.733, "text": "你不用再額外去訓練它去學習如何分類不同的問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 310, "start": 861.9, "end": 863.966, "text": "它自己本來就可以靠著它的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 311, "start": 863.966, "end": 865.866, "text": "這個世界知識去進行判斷", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 312, "start": 866.266, "end": 868.0, "text": "好，你只要 context", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 313, "start": 868.0, "end": 870.766, "text": "就是你的問題的狀況，問題的敘述", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 314, "start": 870.8, "end": 873.766, "text": "還有這個該給的資訊有給足", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 315, "start": 873.8, "end": 877.066, "text": "它大部分的情況下都有能力可以自己判斷", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 316, "start": 877.1, "end": 879.833, "text": "那當然啦，我覺得有些人可能會覺得說", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 317, "start": 879.866, "end": 881.533, "text": "這不是理所當然的嗎？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 318, "start": 882.166, "end": 885.933, "text": "現在哪一個模型不是通用的嘛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 319, "start": 886.433, "end": 887.6, "text": "但你必須要知道", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 320, "start": 887.633, "end": 889.5, "text": "我覺得通用這件事情", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 321, "start": 889.533, "end": 890.8, "text": "就是你還是得加在", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 322, "start": 890.833, "end": 893.166, "text": "classification model 這個詞之前", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 323, "start": 893.166, "end": 894.433, "text": "因為你要知道", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 324, "start": 894.466, "end": 897.2, "text": "在 ChatGPT 時代之前", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 325, "start": 897.233, "end": 900.1, "text": "我們那時候在講 AI，其實那時候", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 326, "start": 900.133, "end": 901.0, "text": "甚至不是在講 AI", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 327, "start": 901.0, "end": 903.366, "text": "在講 machine learning 那個時候", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 328, "start": 903.4, "end": 904.433, "text": "在講 machine learning", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 329, "start": 904.466, "end": 906.766, "text": "在講機器學習的時候呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 330, "start": 906.766, "end": 909.5, "text": "classification，也就是分類問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 331, "start": 909.5, "end": 911.533, "text": "一直以來都是一個大類別", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 332, "start": 911.566, "end": 916.166, "text": "很多的機器學習的演算法都是為了分類問題而設計的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 333, "start": 916.566, "end": 920.066, "text": "那當然沒有任何一個演算法是可以像是現在 Jev", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 334, "start": 920.1, "end": 924.233, "text": "像是現在那個 ChatGPT 這麼通用的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 335, "start": 924.233, "end": 928.766, "text": "全部都是針對一個你的特定問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 336, "start": 928.8, "end": 932.666, "text": "特定領域的特定問題去訓練一個模型出來", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 337, "start": 932.7, "end": 934.4, "text": "就比如說你們今天一個銀行", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 338, "start": 934.4, "end": 937.966, "text": "想要大量去判斷你們客戶的違約機率有多高", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 339, "start": 938.0, "end": 940.5, "text": "你就要準備大量的歷史資料", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 340, "start": 940.533, "end": 942.733, "text": "一筆一筆都清楚地標示了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 341, "start": 942.766, "end": 945.166, "text": "這個客戶他的交易行為如何", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 342, "start": 945.166, "end": 949.433, "text": "他的個人資料、基本資料，然後他是否有違約", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 343, "start": 949.433, "end": 951.366, "text": "具體很多這種過去的資料", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 344, "start": 951.4, "end": 953.666, "text": "就拿這些資料去訓練一個模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 345, "start": 953.833, "end": 955.866, "text": "隨便看你要挑什麼樣子的演算法", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 346, "start": 956.233, "end": 958.8, "text": "有一些比較統計 based 的演算法", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 347, "start": 958.8, "end": 961.266, "text": "也有一些像是神經網路的演算法", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 348, "start": 961.633, "end": 964.5, "text": "反正你挑一個演算法，然後就訓練這個模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 349, "start": 965.1, "end": 967.366, "text": "那後續你就可以用", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 350, "start": 967.4, "end": 971.466, "text": "這個模型去為新的客戶去進行預測", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 351, "start": 971.733, "end": 975.533, "text": "預測看這個人有沒有違約的機率這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 352, "start": 975.9, "end": 979.566, "text": "但很明顯地，同一個模型就只會做這件事情", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 353, "start": 979.866, "end": 981.666, "text": "它不能同時也幫你去判斷一封", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 354, "start": 981.666, "end": 983.333, "text": "email 到底是不是釣魚信件", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 355, "start": 983.766, "end": 988.0, "text": "它只會做你訓練資料有丟給它的事情這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 356, "start": 988.533, "end": 990.866, "text": "所以 classification model 已經是", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 357, "start": 990.866, "end": 992.1, "text": "machine learning", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 358, "start": 992.133, "end": 994.333, "text": "這個圈子當中已經很老的一個詞了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 359, "start": 994.533, "end": 997.833, "text": "然後也是大家鑽研很久的一個技術", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 360, "start": 998.166, "end": 1001.133, "text": "但是 Jev 我覺得可以說就是站在", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 361, "start": 1001.166, "end": 1004.166, "text": "classification model 的頂端啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 362, "start": 1004.3, "end": 1006.933, "text": "它是一個通用的模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 363, "start": 1007.2, "end": 1010.466, "text": "任何問題，你不用訓練，不用找訓練資料", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 364, "start": 1010.5, "end": 1012.733, "text": "丟給它，它就會做了這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 365, "start": 1012.966, "end": 1015.066, "text": "那當然啦，有一些如果太偏的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 366, "start": 1015.1, "end": 1017.7, "text": "會需要大量領域知識的問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 367, "start": 1017.7, "end": 1021.366, "text": "Jev 也不一定能夠直接就給出一個很好的答案", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 368, "start": 1021.4, "end": 1024.1, "text": "就比如說，像我們剛剛舉的例子就蠻不錯的嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 369, "start": 1024.8, "end": 1027.933, "text": "銀行內部要去判斷一個客人他的違約機率", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 370, "start": 1028.366, "end": 1030.7, "text": "那像這樣子的問題呢，因為網路上", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 371, "start": 1030.7, "end": 1033.166, "text": "它在這個 Jev，我們待會會講到 Jev", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 372, "start": 1033.2, "end": 1034.766, "text": "它是一個 LLM-based", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 373, "start": 1034.8, "end": 1037.033, "text": "它有一個大型語言模型的基底", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 374, "start": 1037.033, "end": 1040.066, "text": "它一樣是透過網路上的資料訓練出來的模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 375, "start": 1040.533, "end": 1043.2, "text": "網路上的資料你全部都看過", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 376, "start": 1043.233, "end": 1045.333, "text": "你也不一定可以建立起一個很好的直覺", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 377, "start": 1045.366, "end": 1050.366, "text": "就是什麼樣子的客人容易違約嘛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 378, "start": 1050.366, "end": 1054.866, "text": "通常還是要從銀行自己內部的資料去學習", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 379, "start": 1054.866, "end": 1057.933, "text": "你才可以建立起這邊的直覺", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 380, "start": 1058.366, "end": 1061.3, "text": "那這邊的問題可能 Jev 就沒有辦法解得很好", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 381, "start": 1061.333, "end": 1063.7, "text": "但是其實絕大多數的問題啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 382, "start": 1063.733, "end": 1067.566, "text": "然後很多也都是已經非常有商業價值的問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 383, "start": 1067.566, "end": 1069.8, "text": "Jev 其實就直接可以解決了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 384, "start": 1069.833, "end": 1072.933, "text": "待會我們也可以在講應用場景的時候再多講一些", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 385, "start": 1073.1, "end": 1075.033, "text": "好，那我們剛剛也有大概提到了嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 386, "start": 1075.066, "end": 1076.466, "text": "就是這個 Jev 的模型呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 387, "start": 1076.466, "end": 1080.2, "text": "它之所以是一個通用的分類模型，它有通用能力呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 388, "start": 1080.2, "end": 1082.4, "text": "也是因為它是用一個 LLM", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 389, "start": 1082.433, "end": 1085.0, "text": "一個大型語言模型作為基底嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 390, "start": 1085.0, "end": 1085.433, "text": "對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 391, "start": 1085.433, "end": 1086.9, "text": "那嚴格來說呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 392, "start": 1086.933, "end": 1090.6, "text": "它是用一個預訓練完的 LLM 作為基底", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 393, "start": 1090.6, "end": 1092.8, "text": "但是在後訓練的部分呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 394, "start": 1092.8, "end": 1095.4, "text": "它的做法跟現在典型的 LLM", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 395, "start": 1095.433, "end": 1098.133, "text": "跟 Agent 就開始有不一樣了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 396, "start": 1098.133, "end": 1101.133, "text": "它是在後訓練的這個階段開始分歧的，OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 397, "start": 1101.533, "end": 1103.833, "text": "我們知道現在這些 LLM 的訓練主要", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 398, "start": 1103.833, "end": 1106.333, "text": "就是分成兩個階段嘛，預訓練跟後訓練", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 399, "start": 1106.633, "end": 1107.966, "text": "那預訓練階段", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 400, "start": 1108.0, "end": 1112.033, "text": "就是讓這個模型大量地去看網路上的訓練資料", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 401, "start": 1112.066, "end": 1115.833, "text": "然後去建立起基本的世界知識跟語言能力", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 402, "start": 1115.833, "end": 1120.366, "text": "那後訓練的部分就是建立在這個基本的能力之上", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 403, "start": 1120.4, "end": 1124.533, "text": "再去把這個模型形塑成人類想要的樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 404, "start": 1124.566, "end": 1126.966, "text": "或者是會使用工具的樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 405, "start": 1127.4, "end": 1129.8, "text": "所以 Jev 跟一般 LLM 的差別", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 406, "start": 1129.8, "end": 1133.033, "text": "就是差在後訓練這一段的訓練方式不同嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 407, "start": 1133.066, "end": 1133.7, "text": "對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 408, "start": 1133.7, "end": 1136.333, "text": "我們一樣經過一樣的預訓練", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 409, "start": 1136.333, "end": 1139.566, "text": "就是做出了一個有世界知識的模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 410, "start": 1140.0, "end": 1141.8, "text": "那假設你今天想要讓", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 411, "start": 1141.8, "end": 1144.566, "text": "這個模型後續變成 ChatGPT 的話", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 412, "start": 1144.6, "end": 1148.133, "text": "你就會先讓它理解怎麼樣子跟人類溝通", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 413, "start": 1148.133, "end": 1150.633, "text": "怎麼樣子一搭一唱變成一個 chatbot", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 414, "start": 1150.666, "end": 1153.733, "text": "然後再教它怎麼樣子去使用工具", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 415, "start": 1153.766, "end": 1155.8, "text": "怎麼樣去解數學題目", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 416, "start": 1155.833, "end": 1160.8, "text": "怎麼樣子去解決一個很長時間的 coding 題目等等的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 417, "start": 1160.8, "end": 1162.333, "text": "好，慢慢訓練這些事情", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 418, "start": 1162.366, "end": 1164.5, "text": "然後它就變成了那個 GPT-6。好", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 419, "start": 1164.5, "end": 1168.866, "text": "那如果你是想要把它變成 Jev 這樣子的模型的話呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 420, "start": 1168.9, "end": 1172.566, "text": "你在後訓練的過程中就不要教它怎麼吐文字了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 421, "start": 1172.566, "end": 1174.8, "text": "不要教它給出完整的回答了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 422, "start": 1174.833, "end": 1177.666, "text": "就直接教它怎麼吐一個機率分布就好了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 423, "start": 1177.666, "end": 1180.766, "text": "就基於你的問題，你就是只能吐一個機率分布，OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 424, "start": 1181.066, "end": 1184.566, "text": "就是把它硬是變成一個單純的選擇機器", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 425, "start": 1184.733, "end": 1186.466, "text": "大概念基本上就是這樣子啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 426, "start": 1186.6, "end": 1189.7, "text": "好，但如果你想要再更深一步了解的話呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 427, "start": 1189.733, "end": 1192.866, "text": "我們接下來就來聊一些技術細節", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 428, "start": 1192.866, "end": 1194.9, "text": "那如果你不想聽的話也沒關係", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 429, "start": 1194.933, "end": 1197.7, "text": "就是本集資訊欄都有時間軸", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 430, "start": 1197.7, "end": 1200.833, "text": "這個 part 會比較細一點，比較技術一點", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 431, "start": 1200.866, "end": 1203.1, "text": "你就直接跳到下一個 part 就 OK 了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 432, "start": 1203.1, "end": 1206.066, "text": "反正我們知道這個後訓練的部分呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 433, "start": 1206.1, "end": 1209.433, "text": "也是有分很多不同階段的嘛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 434, "start": 1209.666, "end": 1212.366, "text": "有這個 supervised fine-tuning 啊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 435, "start": 1212.4, "end": 1213.833, "text": "有 RLHF 啊等等的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 436, "start": 1214.033, "end": 1216.666, "text": "每個階段都有它的目的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 437, "start": 1217.1, "end": 1218.1, "text": "像是 RLHF", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 438, "start": 1218.1, "end": 1222.166, "text": "Reinforcement Learning from Human Feedback", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 439, "start": 1222.2, "end": 1224.233, "text": "它在做的就是想辦法讓", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 440, "start": 1224.233, "end": 1226.8, "text": "這個模型的回答更跟人類對齊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 441, "start": 1226.833, "end": 1231.8, "text": "就是說更自然，社會接受度更高，然後更安全", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 442, "start": 1231.8, "end": 1236.9, "text": "給出大家真的會比較喜歡的一個回答", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 443, "start": 1236.933, "end": 1239.633, "text": "另外一個 part 也是很有名的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 444, "start": 1239.633, "end": 1242.6, "text": "是最近這兩年興起的，叫做 RLVR", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 445, "start": 1242.633, "end": 1247.266, "text": "Reinforcement Learning with Verifiable Rewards", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 446, "start": 1247.733, "end": 1252.166, "text": "這邊在做的就是透過讓模型去解決像數學題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 447, "start": 1252.166, "end": 1254.166, "text": "像 coding 的問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 448, "start": 1254.166, "end": 1259.533, "text": "像是一些 puzzle，像是一些 tool use 的 task", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 449, "start": 1259.566, "end": 1262.266, "text": "這種有明確定義的解答", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 450, "start": 1262.266, "end": 1265.666, "text": "明確可被驗證的結果的問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 451, "start": 1265.7, "end": 1273.066, "text": "去訓練它的思考的能力，去嘗試解決方法的能力", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 452, "start": 1273.1, "end": 1277.366, "text": "使用工具的能力，驗證答案的能力等等", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 453, "start": 1277.366, "end": 1280.9, "text": "這個其實就是很多人在過去這兩年講到", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 454, "start": 1280.933, "end": 1283.4, "text": "RL 的時候特別在指的東西", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 455, "start": 1283.4, "end": 1286.033, "text": "就是在講 RLVR", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 456, "start": 1286.066, "end": 1291.266, "text": "TypeSafe 他們基本上不做 RLVR，也不做 RLHF", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 457, "start": 1291.3, "end": 1293.633, "text": "他們在做的是一種新的後訓練", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 458, "start": 1293.666, "end": 1297.433, "text": "他們有發明一個新的詞，叫做 RLCD", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 459, "start": 1297.433, "end": 1303.033, "text": "Reinforcement Learning for Calibrated Decisions", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 460, "start": 1303.033, "end": 1307.0, "text": "的中文是叫做「校準決策」", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 461, "start": 1307.0, "end": 1309.6, "text": "它的意思就是代表說", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 462, "start": 1309.6, "end": 1312.333, "text": "它這個模型必須要能夠給出", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 463, "start": 1312.366, "end": 1315.433, "text": "真的很符合現實的機率分布", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 464, "start": 1315.433, "end": 1316.666, "text": "白話來說", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 465, "start": 1316.7, "end": 1322.266, "text": "它並不是只是要求這個模型最後有選到對的分類", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 466, "start": 1322.3, "end": 1324.066, "text": "選到對的選項而已", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 467, "start": 1324.1, "end": 1329.266, "text": "它還會要求這個模型給出的機率分布是符合事實的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 468, "start": 1329.4, "end": 1331.0, "text": "應該說盡量接近事實", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 469, "start": 1331.466, "end": 1335.066, "text": "因為真實世界中的很多問題也不是非黑即白的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 470, "start": 1335.3, "end": 1338.433, "text": "同樣的一件事情，同樣的一個回覆", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 471, "start": 1338.466, "end": 1342.466, "text": "其實在各種不同的狀況之下也會有不一樣的解讀", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 472, "start": 1342.466, "end": 1346.133, "text": "然後有時候也真的就是有一些機率成分在裡面嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 473, "start": 1346.166, "end": 1347.0, "text": "對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 474, "start": 1347.333, "end": 1348.366, "text": "就比如說", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 475, "start": 1348.366, "end": 1351.8, "text": "你今天的任務是判斷餐廳 Google", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 476, "start": 1351.833, "end": 1356.033, "text": "評論下面的留言到底是正面的還是負面的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 477, "start": 1356.033, "end": 1362.1, "text": "假設有一句留言是寫說：「這間餐廳真的很扯」有寫到這句話", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 478, "start": 1362.5, "end": 1364.5, "text": "那可能 80% 的情況之下", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 479, "start": 1364.533, "end": 1367.7, "text": "這個人是覺得這間餐廳很爛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 480, "start": 1368.1, "end": 1370.2, "text": "但其實同樣一句話也是可以", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 481, "start": 1370.233, "end": 1372.0, "text": "就是比較少人這樣用啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 482, "start": 1372.0, "end": 1374.366, "text": "但是可能 20% 的狀況之下", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 483, "start": 1374.4, "end": 1377.633, "text": "有些人也是會把這句話拿來當稱讚嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 484, "start": 1377.666, "end": 1378.1, "text": "對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 485, "start": 1378.1, "end": 1380.733, "text": "他可能說：「真的很扯 竟然做出這麼好吃的 burger！」嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 486, "start": 1380.766, "end": 1381.233, "text": "對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 487, "start": 1381.633, "end": 1385.266, "text": "所以 TypeSafe AI 透過 RLCD 的訓練目標", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 488, "start": 1385.3, "end": 1390.4, "text": "就是希望讓 Jev 遇到「這個餐廳真的很扯」這句話的時候呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 489, "start": 1390.4, "end": 1394.866, "text": "它會吐出 80% 負面這樣子的一個答案", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 490, "start": 1394.9, "end": 1398.033, "text": "那具體來說，這個 RLCD 究竟是怎麼做的？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 491, "start": 1398.066, "end": 1399.633, "text": "TypeSafe AI 沒有講", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 492, "start": 1399.9, "end": 1401.9, "text": "這個算是他們的 Secret Sauce", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 493, "start": 1401.9, "end": 1404.266, "text": "他們的商業機密的部分啦，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 494, "start": 1405.466, "end": 1409.9, "text": "Jev 的整個模型，他們有講的東西確實沒有很多", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 495, "start": 1409.933, "end": 1411.733, "text": "它是一個閉源模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 496, "start": 1412.4, "end": 1415.333, "text": "Jev，他們今天 TypeSafe 也就只有釋出", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 497, "start": 1415.333, "end": 1417.533, "text": "Jev 的這個 API 的 endpoint", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 498, "start": 1417.566, "end": 1421.2, "text": "所以說你能做的就是看到 Jev 這個 API", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 499, "start": 1421.233, "end": 1423.9, "text": "你的 input、output 是什麼", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 500, "start": 1423.9, "end": 1425.066, "text": "就這樣子而已", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 501, "start": 1425.066, "end": 1427.866, "text": "你實在不知道這個模型它的架構是什麼", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 502, "start": 1427.9, "end": 1429.733, "text": "然後它經過什麼樣子的訓練", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 503, "start": 1429.733, "end": 1432.866, "text": "以及甚至它的 pure output 是什麼", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 504, "start": 1432.866, "end": 1434.566, "text": "你其實也不太知道", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 505, "start": 1434.6, "end": 1437.466, "text": "但在所有的商業機密當中呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 506, "start": 1437.466, "end": 1441.1, "text": "最重要的，我覺得是 Data 跟 RLCD", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 507, "start": 1441.4, "end": 1443.833, "text": "其實 Diogo 他本人也有大概講到這一點", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 508, "start": 1444.633, "end": 1448.233, "text": "這個模型本身的架構其實沒有到非常重要啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 509, "start": 1448.333, "end": 1451.8, "text": "雖然說他們確實說 Jev 的架構有一些更新", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 510, "start": 1452.233, "end": 1454.866, "text": "它並不是真的就是跟現在的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 511, "start": 1454.866, "end": 1457.1, "text": "LLM 完全長得一模一樣", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 512, "start": 1457.1, "end": 1459.033, "text": "只是訓練方式不一樣而已", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 513, "start": 1459.033, "end": 1459.5, "text": "並沒有", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 514, "start": 1459.766, "end": 1461.9, "text": "它架構上也是有一些創新", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 515, "start": 1461.933, "end": 1464.7, "text": "但那個不是 Jev 它最厲害的地方", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 516, "start": 1465.166, "end": 1469.166, "text": "Jev 它最厲害的地方是它的 RLCD 的 recipe", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 517, "start": 1469.2, "end": 1472.333, "text": "它整個食譜跟它的訓練資料這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 518, "start": 1472.866, "end": 1474.0, "text": "不知道他們怎麼搞的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 519, "start": 1474.266, "end": 1477.533, "text": "好，那這邊畢竟全部都是一個謎", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 520, "start": 1477.566, "end": 1479.333, "text": "所以我們就也不講太多了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 521, "start": 1479.366, "end": 1481.0, "text": "就也沒有意義嘛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 522, "start": 1481.033, "end": 1485.7, "text": "好，但針對這個模型的運作原理的技術細節", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 523, "start": 1485.733, "end": 1488.3, "text": "我這邊可以給出一些我自己的猜測啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 524, "start": 1488.3, "end": 1490.2, "text": "那當然我的猜測不一定對", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 525, "start": 1490.2, "end": 1493.066, "text": "雖然說我去網路上，後來我去網路上看", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 526, "start": 1493.066, "end": 1495.733, "text": "我發現也蠻多人跟我的想法一樣的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 527, "start": 1495.766, "end": 1497.266, "text": "但是它不一定對啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 528, "start": 1497.3, "end": 1500.9, "text": "但是它，我覺得是對於大家建立起這個", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 529, "start": 1500.933, "end": 1503.133, "text": "這樣子的模型怎麼運作", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 530, "start": 1503.133, "end": 1505.566, "text": "我們的直覺是有點幫助的啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 531, "start": 1505.566, "end": 1508.666, "text": "因為大方向應該就是這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 532, "start": 1509.033, "end": 1510.966, "text": "我們知道一些大方向的東西", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 533, "start": 1511.233, "end": 1518.366, "text": "首先我們知道的是它這個 API 的 input output 的 shape，跟它的這些字數的限制等等", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 534, "start": 1518.766, "end": 1521.066, "text": "像是它的這個 input", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 535, "start": 1521.066, "end": 1524.5, "text": "基本上你就是放你的問題的敘述", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 536, "start": 1524.533, "end": 1527.4, "text": "應該說它是叫做 state 啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 537, "start": 1528.166, "end": 1531.0, "text": "你現在的情況，你的前後文是什麼", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 538, "start": 1531.333, "end": 1534.066, "text": "你現在在解決的是什麼問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 539, "start": 1534.8, "end": 1537.733, "text": "還有 question 的部分", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 540, "start": 1538.166, "end": 1541.633, "text": "question 就是你要 Jev 去回答的問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 541, "start": 1541.833, "end": 1542.466, "text": "OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 542, "start": 1542.466, "end": 1547.2, "text": "那這邊每個問題就是除了有問題本身的敘述以外呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 543, "start": 1547.233, "end": 1551.4, "text": "也會有那個問題有哪些選項可以選，OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 544, "start": 1551.433, "end": 1552.4, "text": "那選項", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 545, "start": 1552.433, "end": 1555.6, "text": "每一題的選項最多是 255 個", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 546, "start": 1555.633, "end": 1558.8, "text": "然後問題的數量本身沒有限制", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 547, "start": 1558.833, "end": 1560.466, "text": "但是它有總 token 的限制", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 548, "start": 1560.466, "end": 1562.1, "text": "總 token 的限制有兩個喔", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 549, "start": 1562.133, "end": 1564.666, "text": "第一個是你整個 API request", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 550, "start": 1564.7, "end": 1567.633, "text": "就是你的 state 加你的所有問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 551, "start": 1567.666, "end": 1569.966, "text": "加你的所有選項不可以超過", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 552, "start": 1569.966, "end": 1571.766, "text": "64K 的 token", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 553, "start": 1571.8, "end": 1572.7, "text": "然後", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 554, "start": 1572.733, "end": 1575.4, "text": "你的 state 加任意一個問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 555, "start": 1575.4, "end": 1577.566, "text": "加那個問題的所有選項", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 556, "start": 1577.6, "end": 1580.0, "text": "不可以超過 32K 的 token", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 557, "start": 1580.033, "end": 1582.566, "text": "這些數字一看就知道", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 558, "start": 1582.6, "end": 1587.2, "text": "不是 PM 隨便亂定的，它都是有意義的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 559, "start": 1587.2, "end": 1592.8, "text": "32K 你一看到就知道應該是跟 context length 有點關係", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 560, "start": 1592.833, "end": 1597.366, "text": "然後 255、256 − 1，2 的八次方 − 1", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 561, "start": 1597.4, "end": 1601.533, "text": "很明顯也是一個技術上限制的數字", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 562, "start": 1601.566, "end": 1604.233, "text": "這邊就是我們的第一個線索", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 563, "start": 1604.466, "end": 1608.333, "text": "還有另外一個線索，TypeSafe 的 CEO Diogo", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 564, "start": 1608.333, "end": 1610.2, "text": "他會在 Hacker News", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 565, "start": 1610.233, "end": 1613.066, "text": "就是一個技術論壇", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 566, "start": 1613.066, "end": 1617.7, "text": "他會在這個技術論壇上回一些留言，他還蠻活躍的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 567, "start": 1617.733, "end": 1619.833, "text": "好，那他在回覆當中", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 568, "start": 1619.833, "end": 1620.9, "text": "他有一次就有提到", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 569, "start": 1620.933, "end": 1622.6, "text": "就是說確認了一件事情", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 570, "start": 1622.633, "end": 1625.4, "text": "說這個 Jev 的運作原理", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 571, "start": 1625.433, "end": 1627.566, "text": "就是把 LLM 產生的這個", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 572, "start": 1627.6, "end": 1630.6, "text": "token probability distribution", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 573, "start": 1630.6, "end": 1633.2, "text": "換成是針對目前問題的選項的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 574, "start": 1633.233, "end": 1636.033, "text": "probability distribution。好", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 575, "start": 1636.033, "end": 1639.4, "text": "其實它的核心概念是這樣子。好", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 576, "start": 1639.433, "end": 1643.366, "text": "這個是 CEO 認可的講法。那這什麼意思呢？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 577, "start": 1643.366, "end": 1645.6, "text": "首先我們知道現在這些 LLM", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 578, "start": 1645.6, "end": 1647.7, "text": "我們看到它們的產出都是一個", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 579, "start": 1647.733, "end": 1649.766, "text": "token 一個 token 吐出來嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 580, "start": 1649.766, "end": 1650.333, "text": "對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 581, "start": 1650.366, "end": 1652.633, "text": "但它其實並不是算完之後就", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 582, "start": 1652.633, "end": 1654.8, "text": "直接跳出一個 token 這樣", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 583, "start": 1655.366, "end": 1659.433, "text": "它其實實際它吐出的產出是一個機率分布，OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 584, "start": 1659.7, "end": 1662.933, "text": "每一個 token 背後它都是先吐出一個機率分布", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 585, "start": 1662.966, "end": 1665.933, "text": "再從這個機率分布當中選出一個 token", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 586, "start": 1665.933, "end": 1670.166, "text": "這個機率分布就是橫跨它的整個 vocabulary", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 587, "start": 1670.2, "end": 1673.166, "text": "就是它能夠吐出的所有 token 當中", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 588, "start": 1673.2, "end": 1678.366, "text": "每一個 token 作為下一個 token 的機率有多高", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 589, "start": 1678.4, "end": 1681.933, "text": "那它不一定每次都選機率最高，有時候選機率第二", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 590, "start": 1681.933, "end": 1685.133, "text": "有時候選機率第三的，看你的 temperature 調整", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 591, "start": 1685.166, "end": 1687.833, "text": "但反正我們今天就是一直在從 LLM", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 592, "start": 1687.833, "end": 1690.9, "text": "吐出的機率分布當中選一個 token 這樣", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 593, "start": 1691.133, "end": 1694.033, "text": "那這樣 Jev 的概念其實也沒有差很多嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 594, "start": 1694.033, "end": 1694.8, "text": "對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 595, "start": 1694.9, "end": 1696.733, "text": "它也是吐機率分布啊，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 596, "start": 1697.1, "end": 1700.333, "text": "只不過它的機率分布不是它所有能產生的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 597, "start": 1700.366, "end": 1702.233, "text": "token 之間的機率分布", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 598, "start": 1702.233, "end": 1703.633, "text": "它根本不會產生 token", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 599, "start": 1703.666, "end": 1708.366, "text": "它是針對目前這個問題的選項的機率分布，OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 600, "start": 1708.833, "end": 1710.866, "text": "那但這邊就有個問題啦，就每次", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 601, "start": 1710.9, "end": 1713.066, "text": "因為它是個通用模型嘛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 602, "start": 1713.333, "end": 1716.833, "text": "它每次的選項數量可能不同啊，針對不同問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 603, "start": 1716.866, "end": 1718.833, "text": "它可能有時候是非題就兩個選項", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 604, "start": 1718.866, "end": 1722.5, "text": "有時候多選題，不是多選啦，就是選擇題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 605, "start": 1722.5, "end": 1724.466, "text": "可能十個選項之類的都有可能嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 606, "start": 1724.466, "end": 1725.033, "text": "對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 607, "start": 1725.066, "end": 1728.1, "text": "那這邊就是，它怎麼做的呢？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 608, "start": 1728.4, "end": 1731.4, "text": "這部分就開始進入我猜測的部分了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 609, "start": 1731.666, "end": 1735.933, "text": "我猜測它的做法，我後來發現也蠻多人這樣講的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 610, "start": 1735.966, "end": 1739.666, "text": "就是它每次的 output 就是固定是一個", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 611, "start": 1739.666, "end": 1743.266, "text": "255 個 element 的 classifier head", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 612, "start": 1743.266, "end": 1744.366, "text": "簡單來說", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 613, "start": 1744.366, "end": 1749.433, "text": "它每次就是吐出 255 個 element 的一個機率分布", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 614, "start": 1749.466, "end": 1753.2, "text": "每一個 element，每一個元素，它的機率是幾%", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 615, "start": 1753.233, "end": 1755.366, "text": "每次一定都會有 255 個", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 616, "start": 1755.466, "end": 1759.1, "text": "那假設今天的問題只有五個選項的話", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 617, "start": 1759.133, "end": 1762.666, "text": "那這五個選項就分別對應到那", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 618, "start": 1762.7, "end": 1766.0, "text": "255 個 output 中的前五個", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 619, "start": 1766.0, "end": 1769.133, "text": "好，那第六個開始後面的就全部都不要看", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 620, "start": 1769.166, "end": 1770.8, "text": "要嘛就是全部都零啊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 621, "start": 1770.833, "end": 1772.333, "text": "要嘛就全部 mask 住啊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 622, "start": 1772.333, "end": 1774.633, "text": "就反正那邊都不重要，就不用看它們", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 623, "start": 1774.666, "end": 1778.7, "text": "好，那就它一樣會吐出這 255 個的機率分布", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 624, "start": 1778.933, "end": 1781.966, "text": "好，其實嚴格來說啦，好，這邊又更技術一點", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 625, "start": 1782.0, "end": 1783.8, "text": "但就是它在吐的是 logits", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 626, "start": 1783.833, "end": 1790.066, "text": "那這些 logits 後續才會透過一個叫做 softmax 的 function 把它換成機率分布這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 627, "start": 1790.066, "end": 1793.033, "text": "但反正它今天能做到的事情就是", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 628, "start": 1793.066, "end": 1795.633, "text": "吐出 255 個全部的 logits", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 629, "start": 1795.666, "end": 1797.1, "text": "但只用前 5 個", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 630, "start": 1797.1, "end": 1800.266, "text": "然後只拿前 5 個去算一個機率分布", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 631, "start": 1800.266, "end": 1802.766, "text": "就是只拿前 5 個去丟那個 softmax", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 632, "start": 1802.8, "end": 1805.4, "text": "然後算出每個的機率是多少", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 633, "start": 1805.433, "end": 1806.566, "text": "然後加起來會是 100%", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 634, "start": 1806.566, "end": 1810.6, "text": "所以你有點可以把它想像成是說一般的 LLM", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 635, "start": 1810.633, "end": 1814.3, "text": "它在吐的這個機率分布是所有 token 的選項嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 636, "start": 1814.333, "end": 1817.633, "text": "那它可能，當然每個 LLM 的這個 vocabulary", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 637, "start": 1817.666, "end": 1819.7, "text": "就是總字彙數量也不太一樣", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 638, "start": 1819.733, "end": 1823.366, "text": "但可能假設你今天這個 LLM 的總字彙數是 10 萬個", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 639, "start": 1823.4, "end": 1827.466, "text": "你總共可以吐出 10 萬個可能的 token。好", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 640, "start": 1827.466, "end": 1833.833, "text": "那你就是每次，你都是產出一個 10 萬個 token 之間的機率分布這樣子。好", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 641, "start": 1833.833, "end": 1836.466, "text": "但是這個 Jev 它的 token 總數呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 642, "start": 1836.5, "end": 1840.3, "text": "它的詞彙總數你可以把它想像成是就只有 255 個", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 643, "start": 1840.3, "end": 1844.366, "text": "OK，每次這些詞彙都會代表不一樣的東西", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 644, "start": 1844.4, "end": 1847.366, "text": "但就是針對你目前問題的選項是什麼", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 645, "start": 1847.366, "end": 1848.4, "text": "它就代表什麼", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 646, "start": 1848.433, "end": 1850.666, "text": "然後我們要做的也不是只挑選", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 647, "start": 1850.666, "end": 1852.5, "text": "一個 token 出來就好了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 648, "start": 1852.9, "end": 1857.533, "text": "我們要做的是把所有的選項算出一個機率分布", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 649, "start": 1857.866, "end": 1862.366, "text": "那在這個機率分布當中呢，你可以再算出說誰最高", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 650, "start": 1862.4, "end": 1865.1, "text": "然後誰就是成為你目前的 choice", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 651, "start": 1865.1, "end": 1869.6, "text": "同時你也可以算整個機率分布的信心程度", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 652, "start": 1870.0, "end": 1872.333, "text": "如果這個機率分布超偏某個問題的話", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 653, "start": 1872.333, "end": 1873.966, "text": "就代表你的信心程度很高", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 654, "start": 1874.6, "end": 1876.4, "text": "如果是比較平均一點點", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 655, "start": 1876.433, "end": 1878.9, "text": "就代表你的信心程度稍微低一點", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 656, "start": 1879.733, "end": 1881.9, "text": "所以他們 API 也會回傳", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 657, "start": 1882.8, "end": 1884.4, "text": "這些信心程度等等", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 658, "start": 1884.566, "end": 1887.966, "text": "但這些都是透過原本的機率分布算出來的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 659, "start": 1888.033, "end": 1890.8, "text": "它最終的 output 就是一個機率分布", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 660, "start": 1890.866, "end": 1894.266, "text": "然後你一個 API request 裡面包了很多不同的問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 661, "start": 1894.3, "end": 1896.0, "text": "一次傳過去嘛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 662, "start": 1896.5, "end": 1898.766, "text": "我猜他們在做的事情呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 663, "start": 1898.766, "end": 1901.633, "text": "他們是一個個問題會獨立評估", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 664, "start": 1901.866, "end": 1904.366, "text": "這個其實不是我猜啦，這個是官方他們直接有說", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 665, "start": 1904.533, "end": 1907.2, "text": "他們說每個問題他們是獨立評估的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 666, "start": 1907.2, "end": 1908.866, "text": "但是平行進行評估的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 667, "start": 1909.1, "end": 1911.4, "text": "所以說你增加你的問題數量", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 668, "start": 1911.433, "end": 1913.533, "text": "不會增加延遲的時間太多", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 669, "start": 1913.966, "end": 1916.166, "text": "OK，好，那他只有講到這邊啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 670, "start": 1916.166, "end": 1917.733, "text": "但是具體怎麼做呢？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 671, "start": 1917.8, "end": 1920.333, "text": "我覺得他應該暗示得蠻清楚的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 672, "start": 1920.333, "end": 1922.966, "text": "就是配合我們剛剛發現的另外一個線索", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 673, "start": 1923.0, "end": 1926.5, "text": "就是你的 state 加任意一個問題加選項", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 674, "start": 1926.5, "end": 1928.366, "text": "不能超過 32K token", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 675, "start": 1928.4, "end": 1930.766, "text": "所以說這個 32K token 應該", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 676, "start": 1930.766, "end": 1933.4, "text": "就是它的 context length，32K", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 677, "start": 1933.8, "end": 1938.133, "text": "然後你問的所有問題會一個一個被分開拆出來", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 678, "start": 1938.166, "end": 1942.166, "text": "然後再包成一個 batch 進行一次的推論", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 679, "start": 1942.2, "end": 1945.233, "text": "一次的 forward pass 這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 680, "start": 1945.233, "end": 1950.4, "text": "OK，就有點像是說，就一樣你今天用傳統的 LLM", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 681, "start": 1950.433, "end": 1956.466, "text": "然後你可能你的 API 你 send 一個 request 給這個 NVIDIA 的機櫃", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 682, "start": 1956.466, "end": 1959.333, "text": "然後還有另外一個使用者的 request", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 683, "start": 1959.366, "end": 1962.166, "text": "然後這個 NVIDIA 機櫃會把你們兩個的 request", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 684, "start": 1962.166, "end": 1964.7, "text": "跟很多其他人的 request 包在一起", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 685, "start": 1964.733, "end": 1966.166, "text": "一次進行推論", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 686, "start": 1966.2, "end": 1969.433, "text": "然後一直產出很多個 token，是一樣的道理", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 687, "start": 1969.433, "end": 1971.133, "text": "只是他們這邊在做的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 688, "start": 1971.133, "end": 1974.366, "text": "就是你的每個問題會被分開拆出來這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 689, "start": 1974.366, "end": 1976.9, "text": "所以我講了這麼多，我只是想幫你建立一個直覺", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 690, "start": 1976.9, "end": 1979.9, "text": "就是你今天看到 Jev 回答一個問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 691, "start": 1979.933, "end": 1983.933, "text": "其實它在做的運算其實是很接近", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 692, "start": 1983.933, "end": 1987.8, "text": "就是一個 LLM 產生一個 token", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 693, "start": 1987.8, "end": 1990.8, "text": "OK，就這樣而已，就它吐一個 token 出來", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 694, "start": 1990.8, "end": 1992.5, "text": "就完成了它所有的任務", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 695, "start": 1992.633, "end": 1995.5, "text": "從這邊你就可以了解到", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 696, "start": 1995.5, "end": 1997.066, "text": "為什麼 Jev", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 697, "start": 1997.066, "end": 2002.533, "text": "它可以有這麼大量的速度的提升跟成本的節省", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 698, "start": 2002.566, "end": 2005.533, "text": "快 200 倍，省 400 倍的成本", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 699, "start": 2005.8, "end": 2006.233, "text": "為什麼呢？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 700, "start": 2006.466, "end": 2007.8, "text": "因為它只吐一個 token 啊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 701, "start": 2009.166, "end": 2011.6, "text": "它只跑一次啊，就結束啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 702, "start": 2012.033, "end": 2015.333, "text": "那一般的 LLM，如果給出一個 2000 字的回答", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 703, "start": 2015.333, "end": 2017.033, "text": "它就是要跑 2000 次啊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 704, "start": 2017.233, "end": 2018.3, "text": "它就要跑 2000 個 token", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 705, "start": 2018.333, "end": 2019.9, "text": "2000 個 forward pass 嘛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 706, "start": 2020.333, "end": 2022.966, "text": "整個權重要算過 2000 遍", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 707, "start": 2023.133, "end": 2026.033, "text": "那這個大方向的直覺，我覺得是不太可能會錯的啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 708, "start": 2026.2, "end": 2029.133, "text": "OK，就很多也是他們官方已經間接承認的東西", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 709, "start": 2029.533, "end": 2032.633, "text": "我覺得我這邊比較猜測我自己的想法的部分", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 710, "start": 2033.0, "end": 2038.8, "text": "只是在於它 255 個 classifier head 的 implementation", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 711, "start": 2038.833, "end": 2040.766, "text": "那些細節的部分啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 712, "start": 2040.866, "end": 2042.9, "text": "但這個直覺是不會錯的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 713, "start": 2043.0, "end": 2044.733, "text": "你就是可以這樣子去思考 Jev", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 714, "start": 2044.933, "end": 2048.633, "text": "那你現在完整理解了 Jev 的運作原理之後呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 715, "start": 2048.666, "end": 2052.833, "text": "你再回來看一個 Jev 模型跟 LLM 模型的差別", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 716, "start": 2052.833, "end": 2056.466, "text": "好，你就可以非常直覺地去理解到說為什麼", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 717, "start": 2056.466, "end": 2059.1, "text": "這個 TypeSafe AI 會把它稱作", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 718, "start": 2059.1, "end": 2061.3, "text": "會這樣子去 market 這個模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 719, "start": 2061.333, "end": 2063.366, "text": "會把它稱作 System 1 模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 720, "start": 2063.4, "end": 2065.666, "text": "然後會講出那些什麼完全不會", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 721, "start": 2065.666, "end": 2068.433, "text": "hallucinate 之類的一些行銷用語嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 722, "start": 2068.433, "end": 2069.066, "text": "對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 723, "start": 2069.1, "end": 2072.466, "text": "首先，它會叫做 System 1 模型呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 724, "start": 2072.466, "end": 2074.766, "text": "當然就是一樣是來自於", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 725, "start": 2074.8, "end": 2078.466, "text": "《Thinking, Fast and Slow》這本書", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 726, "start": 2078.5, "end": 2084.766, "text": "他們講說人類的大腦有 System 1 跟 System 2 的這兩種思考系統", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 727, "start": 2084.766, "end": 2086.466, "text": "System 1 是直覺腦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 728, "start": 2086.466, "end": 2089.333, "text": "就是你直接想也不想針對這個問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 729, "start": 2089.366, "end": 2091.333, "text": "反射性地直接給出答案", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 730, "start": 2091.766, "end": 2094.633, "text": "那 System 2 就是思考計畫腦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 731, "start": 2094.666, "end": 2095.666, "text": "就是針對", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 732, "start": 2095.7, "end": 2100.433, "text": "這個問題你會花很多時間去認真地一步一步地思考", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 733, "start": 2100.433, "end": 2103.433, "text": "去做計畫，去安排，然後再去回答", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 734, "start": 2103.466, "end": 2105.966, "text": "一般的 LLM 是 System 2", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 735, "start": 2105.966, "end": 2110.033, "text": "應該說現在絕大多數的 LLM 都是會思考的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 736, "start": 2110.033, "end": 2111.7, "text": "在回答問題之前", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 737, "start": 2112.0, "end": 2114.933, "text": "好，那 Jev 它就是完全不會思考", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 738, "start": 2114.966, "end": 2117.033, "text": "它反射性地針對這個問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 739, "start": 2117.033, "end": 2120.666, "text": "直接給出一個答案的模型，所以說是 System 1", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 740, "start": 2120.7, "end": 2123.266, "text": "那我知道有些人會說，欸不對啊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 741, "start": 2123.266, "end": 2125.833, "text": "這其實不久之前，大概兩年之前", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 742, "start": 2125.833, "end": 2129.466, "text": "我們才在講說當時的 LLM 都是 System 1", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 743, "start": 2129.5, "end": 2133.9, "text": "然後後來才慢慢因為 o1 的出現，模型開始會思考", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 744, "start": 2133.933, "end": 2135.966, "text": "才開始變成 System 2 嘛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 745, "start": 2135.966, "end": 2138.766, "text": "那不是原本的模型也是 System 1 嘛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 746, "start": 2139.166, "end": 2140.3, "text": "是不是原本的模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 747, "start": 2140.3, "end": 2142.5, "text": "其實也很接近 Jev 可以做到的事情？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 748, "start": 2142.9, "end": 2144.433, "text": "其實嚴格來說", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 749, "start": 2144.433, "end": 2147.266, "text": "現在所有的大型語言模型都", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 750, "start": 2147.3, "end": 2150.033, "text": "可以被迫做出 Jev 的行為", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 751, "start": 2150.2, "end": 2154.433, "text": "就是你可以硬逼它變成是跟 Jev 類似的模型，OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 752, "start": 2154.633, "end": 2158.0, "text": "然後也真的可以得到跟 Jev 一樣的 Speed Up，OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 753, "start": 2158.233, "end": 2161.1, "text": "只是它的表現可能不一定像是原生的 Jev 這麼好", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 754, "start": 2161.366, "end": 2162.666, "text": "那怎麼說呢？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 755, "start": 2162.866, "end": 2165.166, "text": "其實網路上在過去這幾天", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 756, "start": 2165.166, "end": 2170.666, "text": "已經有大量的這些開源社群的人去想辦法做出", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 757, "start": 2170.7, "end": 2173.966, "text": "一個開源版本的 Jev 模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 758, "start": 2173.966, "end": 2178.566, "text": "使用的就是一些像是 Qwen 這種的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 759, "start": 2178.6, "end": 2181.2, "text": "這個要怎麼做呢？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 760, "start": 2181.2, "end": 2183.5, "text": "其實不用經過額外的訓練喔", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 761, "start": 2183.766, "end": 2186.266, "text": "你只是要它有 Jev 的行為的話", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 762, "start": 2186.266, "end": 2188.0, "text": "你不用額外再訓練它", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 763, "start": 2188.4, "end": 2189.466, "text": "那這邊要怎麼做呢？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 764, "start": 2189.566, "end": 2191.7, "text": "其實比你想像中的更簡單喔", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 765, "start": 2191.8, "end": 2195.466, "text": "假設你今天要用一個像是社群有人用的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 766, "start": 2195.466, "end": 2197.9, "text": "這個 Qwen3.5-4B 的模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 767, "start": 2198.366, "end": 2200.2, "text": "你要把它變成 Jev，你要怎麼做？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 768, "start": 2200.4, "end": 2203.366, "text": "就是你一樣丟給它你的 state 跟你的 question", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 769, "start": 2203.766, "end": 2210.066, "text": "就比如說你的 state 是這個客人說：「哇！你們餐廳的牛排實在是太好吃了！」", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 770, "start": 2210.433, "end": 2211.966, "text": "那你的 question", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 771, "start": 2211.966, "end": 2215.933, "text": "就是：「請問這則回覆是正面的還是負面的？」", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 772, "start": 2217.2, "end": 2221.3, "text": "下面就有兩個選項，選項 A：正面，選項 B：負面", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 773, "start": 2221.6, "end": 2226.666, "text": "你這邊就要把選項的代號要明確地標出來", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 774, "start": 2226.7, "end": 2228.433, "text": "要標 A 跟 B", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 775, "start": 2229.3, "end": 2233.133, "text": "之後你在 prompt 裡面就可以直接明確地跟它說", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 776, "start": 2233.166, "end": 2235.866, "text": "針對目前的問題以及選項", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 777, "start": 2235.866, "end": 2238.9, "text": "好，直接給我你會選哪一個選項", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 778, "start": 2238.933, "end": 2239.033, "text": "OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 779, "start": 2239.466, "end": 2241.766, "text": "所以說，你的整個 prompt 就是這樣", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 780, "start": 2241.9, "end": 2243.4, "text": "我剛剛講的全部都是 prompt 的部分", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 781, "start": 2243.766, "end": 2245.866, "text": "那接下來，Qwen 收到這個 prompt 之後", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 782, "start": 2245.9, "end": 2248.466, "text": "它的第一步就是要開始產生 token 嘛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 783, "start": 2248.5, "end": 2249.966, "text": "要產生出第一個 token", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 784, "start": 2250.466, "end": 2252.166, "text": "好，那我們剛剛也有講到", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 785, "start": 2252.2, "end": 2255.066, "text": "就是一般的 LLM 在產生一個 token 的時候", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 786, "start": 2255.066, "end": 2257.4, "text": "它其實是在產生一個機率分布", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 787, "start": 2257.433, "end": 2261.833, "text": "好，那更嚴格來說呢，它是產生所有可能的 token", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 788, "start": 2261.866, "end": 2265.033, "text": "都會幫它打一個分數，叫做 logits", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 789, "start": 2265.033, "end": 2269.533, "text": "logits 這個分數後續才會被轉換成機率分布", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 790, "start": 2269.533, "end": 2272.7, "text": "透過一個叫做 softmax 的功能", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 791, "start": 2272.733, "end": 2277.866, "text": "但反正它會為所有可能的 token 都打一個分數", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 792, "start": 2278.133, "end": 2280.566, "text": "那理論上在所有 token 當中", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 793, "start": 2280.566, "end": 2284.1, "text": "字母 A 的分數應該是最高的嘛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 794, "start": 2284.5, "end": 2289.866, "text": "因為我們就是叫它直接給出你的選項啊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 795, "start": 2289.9, "end": 2294.033, "text": "所以說它理論上應該最有可能直接吐出 A 這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 796, "start": 2294.466, "end": 2296.633, "text": "但它也有可能吐出其他的嘛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 797, "start": 2297.033, "end": 2299.4, "text": "就你同樣的一個 prompt 丟給一個 LLM", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 798, "start": 2299.433, "end": 2300.233, "text": "叫它去回答", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 799, "start": 2300.666, "end": 2302.4, "text": "它有時候會直接就給你回答「A」", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 800, "start": 2302.433, "end": 2303.766, "text": "沒錯，這是符合你的需求", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 801, "start": 2303.933, "end": 2306.166, "text": "但有時候它會回答「答案是 A」", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 802, "start": 2306.166, "end": 2307.866, "text": "那它第一個 token 呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 803, "start": 2307.9, "end": 2310.333, "text": "就是它其實是「答」這個 token", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 804, "start": 2310.366, "end": 2312.9, "text": "「答」這個字的機率是最高的，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 805, "start": 2312.933, "end": 2314.833, "text": "但是所以說就是它不一定 A", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 806, "start": 2314.833, "end": 2316.8, "text": "這個 token 的分數是最高的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 807, "start": 2316.8, "end": 2320.233, "text": "但是你其他的 token 的分數你就完全不要看啊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 808, "start": 2320.266, "end": 2326.1, "text": "你就直接拿 token A 的這個分數跟 token B 的這個分數", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 809, "start": 2326.1, "end": 2327.133, "text": "只看這兩個分數", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 810, "start": 2327.166, "end": 2329.2, "text": "然後把它放到 softmax function", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 811, "start": 2329.2, "end": 2330.366, "text": "當中去算一個機率", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 812, "start": 2330.4, "end": 2333.766, "text": "就是硬是只算這兩個 token 的機率", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 813, "start": 2333.766, "end": 2336.1, "text": "然後兩個要加起來 100%", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 814, "start": 2336.533, "end": 2338.466, "text": "那它這邊 softmax 算完之後", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 815, "start": 2338.5, "end": 2340.733, "text": "可能就是 token A 的機率是 95%", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 816, "start": 2340.766, "end": 2342.933, "text": "然後 token B 的機率是 5%。好", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 817, "start": 2342.933, "end": 2346.066, "text": "那這個時候你就是得到跟 Jev 一樣的輸出了嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 818, "start": 2346.1, "end": 2346.933, "text": "對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 819, "start": 2346.966, "end": 2350.0, "text": "就是一個針對你目前問題的所有選項的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 820, "start": 2350.0, "end": 2351.166, "text": "一個機率分布", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 821, "start": 2351.2, "end": 2352.233, "text": "所以簡單來說", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 822, "start": 2352.233, "end": 2354.666, "text": "因為 LLM 本身就是在產生機率分布", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 823, "start": 2354.666, "end": 2356.433, "text": "所以說你也不用特別訓練它", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 824, "start": 2356.466, "end": 2358.7, "text": "你也不用改目前的 LLM 的架構", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 825, "start": 2358.733, "end": 2362.833, "text": "你只要單純不去解讀它產生的 token", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 826, "start": 2362.833, "end": 2366.1, "text": "而是直接讀你想要的 token 的機率分布", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 827, "start": 2366.133, "end": 2369.266, "text": "你就可以讓它變成一個 Jev 的模型了，OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 828, "start": 2369.266, "end": 2370.0, "text": "就是這麼簡單", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 829, "start": 2370.466, "end": 2373.833, "text": "那網路上確實也是有人把 Qwen3.5-4B 的模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 830, "start": 2373.833, "end": 2375.433, "text": "變成一個 Jev 的模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 831, "start": 2375.433, "end": 2380.933, "text": "然後它表現跟實際 TypeSafe AI 的 Jev 模型究竟有多接近呢？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 832, "start": 2380.966, "end": 2385.766, "text": "其實真的在簡單跟中等的問題上面都非常的接近喔", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 833, "start": 2386.133, "end": 2388.866, "text": "簡單的問題基本上是接近 100%", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 834, "start": 2388.9, "end": 2390.8, "text": "完全表現是非常好的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 835, "start": 2391.366, "end": 2393.466, "text": "那唯一是在一些比較困難一點", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 836, "start": 2393.466, "end": 2395.866, "text": "複雜一點的問題上，它會輸給 Jev", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 837, "start": 2396.066, "end": 2399.6, "text": "然後在整個機率的校準上，機率的校準上", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 838, "start": 2399.633, "end": 2403.066, "text": "calibration 上，它也會輸給 Jev 一點", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 839, "start": 2403.4, "end": 2405.533, "text": "OK，就算是中等的問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 840, "start": 2405.533, "end": 2408.433, "text": "它答對了沒錯，但它的機率分布", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 841, "start": 2408.466, "end": 2410.3, "text": "沒有到像 Jev 一樣這麼準", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 842, "start": 2410.333, "end": 2413.633, "text": "但速度跟成本，其實都可以贏過 Jev", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 843, "start": 2413.8, "end": 2415.8, "text": "這速度可以比 Jev 快一點點", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 844, "start": 2415.966, "end": 2418.933, "text": "嚴格來說，這樣直接比也沒有到非常公平", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 845, "start": 2418.933, "end": 2420.1, "text": "因為這個 Qwen", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 846, "start": 2420.133, "end": 2423.066, "text": "我們是本地直接跑，那 Jev 是 API", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 847, "start": 2423.1, "end": 2425.066, "text": "還要算網路的來回速度", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 848, "start": 2425.066, "end": 2426.566, "text": "但你就算扣了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 849, "start": 2426.6, "end": 2431.5, "text": "就是給 Qwen 的這個速度一些網路的 punishment", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 850, "start": 2431.533, "end": 2435.133, "text": "還是就是跟 Jev 差不多快，甚至比 Jev 快一點點", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 851, "start": 2435.133, "end": 2439.033, "text": "我在想這個 Jev 的模型應該是比 4B 再大一點這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 852, "start": 2439.066, "end": 2442.466, "text": "然後同時成本當然也贏過 Jev 嘛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 853, "start": 2442.5, "end": 2445.3, "text": "因為這個 Qwen 的模型你隨便一台筆電就可以跑了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 854, "start": 2445.333, "end": 2447.266, "text": "所以你成本基本上是零", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 855, "start": 2447.266, "end": 2449.166, "text": "所以天下所有的 LLM 你都", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 856, "start": 2449.166, "end": 2451.2, "text": "可以直接把它當作 Jev 在用", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 857, "start": 2451.233, "end": 2455.2, "text": "然後它立刻就可以得到幾百倍的速度跟幾百倍的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 858, "start": 2455.2, "end": 2457.0, "text": "這個成本優化這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 859, "start": 2457.0, "end": 2462.133, "text": "但是它能不能真的在這些問題選項上面給出", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 860, "start": 2462.166, "end": 2465.466, "text": "真的很有校準過的機率分布", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 861, "start": 2465.5, "end": 2467.833, "text": "真的準確率高的答案呢？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 862, "start": 2467.833, "end": 2470.5, "text": "這個就是 Jev 它特別強的地方了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 863, "start": 2470.566, "end": 2471.733, "text": "這個就是因為 Jev", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 864, "start": 2471.733, "end": 2475.2, "text": "它整個模型原生就是為了這樣子的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 865, "start": 2475.2, "end": 2477.9, "text": "use case 去訓練出來的嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 866, "start": 2477.933, "end": 2481.066, "text": "就是我們剛剛講的這個 RLCD 的部分嘛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 867, "start": 2481.5, "end": 2485.8, "text": "那當然你一個模型跑了 RLHF，跑了 RLVR", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 868, "start": 2485.8, "end": 2488.266, "text": "然後再硬逼它去做這種選擇題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 869, "start": 2488.3, "end": 2491.533, "text": "當然不會比一個做了 RLCD 的模型更好嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 870, "start": 2491.566, "end": 2492.4, "text": "對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 871, "start": 2492.433, "end": 2496.1, "text": "這邊其實就回扣到我們剛剛在技術討論那邊說", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 872, "start": 2496.1, "end": 2501.333, "text": "這個 RLCD 的 recipe，以及他們訓練的資料", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 873, "start": 2501.333, "end": 2504.133, "text": "才是 TypeSafe AI 這間公司的護城河", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 874, "start": 2504.166, "end": 2507.6, "text": "才是他們最強的技術的秘密", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 875, "start": 2507.633, "end": 2511.766, "text": "好，那模型的架構本身其實真的還好", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 876, "start": 2512.0, "end": 2514.533, "text": "好，那我們現在再回去看一下它那個", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 877, "start": 2514.533, "end": 2517.066, "text": "Marketing 裡面講的最狂的一句話嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 878, "start": 2517.066, "end": 2520.133, "text": "就是 Jev 這個模型是完全不會有幻覺的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 879, "start": 2520.166, "end": 2522.566, "text": "不會 Hallucinate 的一個模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 880, "start": 2522.566, "end": 2526.933, "text": "好，那我覺得這句話呢，也是有點半炒作意味啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 881, "start": 2526.966, "end": 2530.133, "text": "就是其實它嚴格來說不到非常精準", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 882, "start": 2530.166, "end": 2533.2, "text": "應該說要看你怎麼定義 Hallucinate 這件事情", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 883, "start": 2533.2, "end": 2536.233, "text": "因為 Jev 沒錯，你如果問題就給它五個選項", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 884, "start": 2536.233, "end": 2540.3, "text": "那它只可能輸出這五個選項的其中一個", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 885, "start": 2540.333, "end": 2543.466, "text": "嚴格來說它就只會輸出這五個選項的一個機率分布", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 886, "start": 2543.5, "end": 2545.933, "text": "然後你後續再選出其中一個嘛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 887, "start": 2545.933, "end": 2549.5, "text": "那它無論如何，它不可能會選出第六個選項", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 888, "start": 2549.533, "end": 2551.266, "text": "因為你根本就沒有給它第六個選項", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 889, "start": 2551.3, "end": 2555.366, "text": "然後它也不可能會把你的選項的裡面的字給寫錯之類的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 890, "start": 2555.366, "end": 2557.666, "text": "因為它根本就不用輸出那些字", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 891, "start": 2557.7, "end": 2559.366, "text": "它只要輸出機率分布", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 892, "start": 2559.366, "end": 2561.266, "text": "後續選項你怎麼定義", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 893, "start": 2561.266, "end": 2564.5, "text": "然後你最後選出哪個是你自己在選的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 894, "start": 2564.5, "end": 2564.9, "text": "OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 895, "start": 2564.933, "end": 2566.366, "text": "所以 Jev 不可能會", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 896, "start": 2566.366, "end": 2569.166, "text": "就是嚴格來說它不可能會有 type error", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 897, "start": 2569.2, "end": 2571.133, "text": "它不可能會有這種型態的錯誤", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 898, "start": 2571.133, "end": 2574.033, "text": "叫做 type error，它不可能會有 type error", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 899, "start": 2574.033, "end": 2578.2, "text": "那我相信這也是為什麼他們公司的名稱叫做 TypeSafe AI 嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 900, "start": 2578.233, "end": 2578.966, "text": "對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 901, "start": 2578.966, "end": 2583.066, "text": "因為它不會有 type error，但是如果你對於 Hallucinate", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 902, "start": 2583.1, "end": 2585.166, "text": "對於幻覺定義比較廣一點的話", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 903, "start": 2585.2, "end": 2590.133, "text": "就是包含到很明顯給錯誤的答案，也叫做幻覺的話", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 904, "start": 2590.133, "end": 2594.066, "text": "那 Jev 也會出錯，它百分之百也會出錯", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 905, "start": 2594.1, "end": 2595.766, "text": "它可能也會針對一個問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 906, "start": 2595.8, "end": 2599.533, "text": "然後很有信心地給出一個很錯的答案", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 907, "start": 2599.533, "end": 2601.0, "text": "很糟糕的機率分布啊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 908, "start": 2601.233, "end": 2602.733, "text": "那個算不算 hallucinate？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 909, "start": 2603.033, "end": 2604.866, "text": "我覺得對於有些人來說那個也算", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 910, "start": 2605.3, "end": 2608.3, "text": "但是就看你怎麼定義 hallucinate", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 911, "start": 2608.5, "end": 2610.633, "text": "我們現在完全理解了 Jev 這個模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 912, "start": 2610.666, "end": 2612.033, "text": "它到底是什麼樣子的一個模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 913, "start": 2612.066, "end": 2613.2, "text": "它怎麼運作的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 914, "start": 2613.233, "end": 2617.066, "text": "我們接下來要來講一下實際的應用場景有哪一些", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 915, "start": 2617.066, "end": 2618.766, "text": "以及我的一些實測心得", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 916, "start": 2618.8, "end": 2622.4, "text": "那這邊你要先了解的一個觀念呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 917, "start": 2622.433, "end": 2624.4, "text": "我相信你到這邊應該自己也知道了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 918, "start": 2624.4, "end": 2627.933, "text": "但是就是，Jev 它不會全面取代 LLM", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 919, "start": 2627.933, "end": 2630.0, "text": "它只能把目前的 LLM", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 920, "start": 2630.033, "end": 2632.633, "text": "就是目前的這些 AI agent", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 921, "start": 2632.633, "end": 2637.433, "text": "工作中一些比較單純的判斷選擇問題快速地處理掉", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 922, "start": 2637.466, "end": 2641.0, "text": "這個就是 Jev 它的應用場景，這就是它的價值", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 923, "start": 2641.166, "end": 2642.633, "text": "OK，那像什麼東西呢？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 924, "start": 2642.766, "end": 2644.8, "text": "像是模型路由嘛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 925, "start": 2644.933, "end": 2645.666, "text": "model routing", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 926, "start": 2646.0, "end": 2648.166, "text": "好，就今天使用者問了這個問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 927, "start": 2648.166, "end": 2649.9, "text": "你應該用比較弱的模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 928, "start": 2649.933, "end": 2652.466, "text": "還是要比較強的模型才可以去解決", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 929, "start": 2652.5, "end": 2653.033, "text": "OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 930, "start": 2653.066, "end": 2658.066, "text": "然後還有像是很大量的這種要初期的資料的篩選，OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 931, "start": 2658.333, "end": 2660.5, "text": "好，就是比如說我們剛剛講到", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 932, "start": 2660.533, "end": 2663.833, "text": "最一開始有講到一個履歷的例子嘛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 933, "start": 2664.433, "end": 2667.866, "text": "你今天假設大公司收到好幾千封履歷，好", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 934, "start": 2667.866, "end": 2671.033, "text": "那你要從這個履歷當中先挑出適合的人選", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 935, "start": 2671.066, "end": 2676.033, "text": "那當然你可以每一封都全部都叫 GPT-6 Astra 去看，好", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 936, "start": 2676.033, "end": 2679.4, "text": "那你可能 token 就會燒蠻多的這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 937, "start": 2679.433, "end": 2682.2, "text": "但是你如果是用 Jev，好", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 938, "start": 2682.233, "end": 2687.1, "text": "先把五千封的履歷先挑出其中的兩百封就好了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 939, "start": 2687.133, "end": 2691.266, "text": "好，那快速地，Jev 可以很快速地做到這個挑選", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 940, "start": 2691.266, "end": 2692.766, "text": "然後挑出兩百封", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 941, "start": 2692.8, "end": 2695.833, "text": "那兩百封再交給 Astra 去一封一封看", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 942, "start": 2695.833, "end": 2698.866, "text": "這樣是不是你的 token 就會省非常多", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 943, "start": 2698.9, "end": 2700.7, "text": "然後整個過程也會快很多", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 944, "start": 2700.7, "end": 2701.2, "text": "對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 945, "start": 2701.233, "end": 2703.9, "text": "這個 GPT-6 Astra 在看履歷的時候呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 946, "start": 2703.9, "end": 2707.266, "text": "可能就是真的根據你給的這個標準呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 947, "start": 2707.3, "end": 2708.766, "text": "然後一條一條地看", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 948, "start": 2708.8, "end": 2711.433, "text": "這個人的經歷是否有符合", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 949, "start": 2711.433, "end": 2713.266, "text": "一條一條檢查之類的，然後", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 950, "start": 2713.3, "end": 2716.266, "text": "每次檢查都還可能還要再燒一些 token", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 951, "start": 2716.266, "end": 2718.0, "text": "去思考之類有的沒的。好", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 952, "start": 2718.0, "end": 2720.966, "text": "但 Jev 它今天就是，它看一封履歷的時間", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 953, "start": 2721.0, "end": 2723.933, "text": "就等同於 GPT-6 Astra 產出一個 token 的時間", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 954, "start": 2723.933, "end": 2724.9, "text": "一個 token", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 955, "start": 2724.933, "end": 2728.466, "text": "就它吃了你的徵才標準跟目前這個人的履歷之後", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 956, "start": 2728.466, "end": 2730.566, "text": "就直接吐出一個機率分布啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 957, "start": 2730.6, "end": 2731.7, "text": "就 1 到 5", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 958, "start": 2731.7, "end": 2733.3, "text": "你可能是給它選項 1 到 5", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 959, "start": 2733.333, "end": 2737.1, "text": "這個程度，5 是最符合，1 是最不符合", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 960, "start": 2737.133, "end": 2739.3, "text": "然後它就直接吐出一個機率分布", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 961, "start": 2739.333, "end": 2739.733, "text": "然後選", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 962, "start": 2739.733, "end": 2741.166, "text": "然後你立刻從這個機率分布", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 963, "start": 2741.2, "end": 2742.6, "text": "就直接算出這個人是 5", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 964, "start": 2742.633, "end": 2743.333, "text": "這個人是 4", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 965, "start": 2743.333, "end": 2744.066, "text": "這個人是 2", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 966, "start": 2744.1, "end": 2744.866, "text": "這個人是 3", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 967, "start": 2744.9, "end": 2745.866, "text": "這個人是 5", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 968, "start": 2745.866, "end": 2746.066, "text": "好", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 969, "start": 2746.1, "end": 2747.566, "text": "然後就很快，就超快", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 970, "start": 2747.566, "end": 2748.9, "text": "就篩出 200 封了，然後", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 971, "start": 2748.933, "end": 2750.0, "text": "當然這只是一個例子啊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 972, "start": 2750.033, "end": 2752.6, "text": "我們前面講到的那像什麼客服啊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 973, "start": 2752.6, "end": 2755.033, "text": "像什麼 email 的處理啊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 974, "start": 2755.033, "end": 2756.566, "text": "Jev 也全部都可以做", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 975, "start": 2756.6, "end": 2757.266, "text": "你能想到", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 976, "start": 2757.3, "end": 2761.4, "text": "你只要能夠把你的問題去 frame 成一個分類問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 977, "start": 2761.433, "end": 2764.8, "text": "然後有明確的選項可以讓 Jev 去選的話", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 978, "start": 2764.8, "end": 2766.266, "text": "Jev 都可以解決", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 979, "start": 2766.3, "end": 2768.266, "text": "只不過 Jev 它模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 980, "start": 2768.266, "end": 2769.6, "text": "它本身有一個限制", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 981, "start": 2769.633, "end": 2772.433, "text": "就是它沒有視覺能力", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 982, "start": 2772.466, "end": 2773.766, "text": "它是一個純文字模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 983, "start": 2773.766, "end": 2777.933, "text": "所以說，今天假如你的問題是跟視覺有相關的話", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 984, "start": 2777.966, "end": 2780.433, "text": "你就是還要再接其他的工具", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 985, "start": 2780.433, "end": 2782.566, "text": "讓它可以理解這個圖片的內容", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 986, "start": 2782.6, "end": 2784.966, "text": "比如說接一個 OCR 的工具等等的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 987, "start": 2785.2, "end": 2790.133, "text": "OK，好，那我看到網路上很多人都在 demo 的一個應用場景", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 988, "start": 2790.133, "end": 2794.866, "text": "就是讓 Jev 去做 computer use，去使用電腦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 989, "start": 2794.9, "end": 2797.3, "text": "OK，好，那一開始你看一些這些 demo", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 990, "start": 2797.333, "end": 2798.566, "text": "你真的會覺得，哇", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 991, "start": 2798.566, "end": 2801.366, "text": "這好像真的是一個 Game Changer 喔", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 992, "start": 2801.4, "end": 2805.2, "text": "因為 computer use 的問題呢，就是現在的做法啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 993, "start": 2805.2, "end": 2809.1, "text": "就基本上你要叫 GPT-6 Astra 去操作一個網站", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 994, "start": 2809.1, "end": 2813.433, "text": "它基本上就是它會看到這個網站的截圖", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 995, "start": 2813.433, "end": 2813.633, "text": "OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 996, "start": 2813.666, "end": 2817.933, "text": "那它就直接根據這個截圖去 reason 現在我這個步驟", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 997, "start": 2817.933, "end": 2819.1, "text": "我應該要點什麼東西", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 998, "start": 2819.133, "end": 2825.4, "text": "然後就直接產出它要點的座標跟它的動作", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 999, "start": 2825.433, "end": 2826.766, "text": "可能是 click 還是 double click", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1000, "start": 2826.766, "end": 2830.666, "text": "Whatever，然後再 call 一個操作的工具", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1001, "start": 2830.666, "end": 2832.933, "text": "然後就完成這次的點擊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1002, "start": 2832.933, "end": 2837.566, "text": "每一個步驟它都要這樣做一個 reasoning 的過程", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1003, "start": 2837.6, "end": 2840.066, "text": "有時候它還會思考一下嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1004, "start": 2840.066, "end": 2843.533, "text": "對不對？就看到這張圖片，還要思考個幾句", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1005, "start": 2843.533, "end": 2847.433, "text": "想一下說，我現在應該要點哪一個按鈕啊？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1006, "start": 2847.466, "end": 2849.6, "text": "然後應該要怎麼點啊？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1007, "start": 2849.6, "end": 2851.966, "text": "然後什麼，反正就會產生很多 token", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1008, "start": 2851.966, "end": 2853.633, "text": "然後會花很久的時間，OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1009, "start": 2853.633, "end": 2856.6, "text": "那 Jev 如果它真的電腦可以用得很好", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1010, "start": 2856.633, "end": 2857.3, "text": "很快的話", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1011, "start": 2857.3, "end": 2859.066, "text": "基本上因為每個步驟其實", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1012, "start": 2859.1, "end": 2862.2, "text": "你可以想像你都可以把它 frame 成一個分類問題嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1013, "start": 2862.233, "end": 2862.866, "text": "對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1014, "start": 2862.866, "end": 2863.0, "text": "好", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1015, "start": 2863.033, "end": 2866.733, "text": "就你今天的目標是要點選這間", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1016, "start": 2866.733, "end": 2870.7, "text": "網路電商它的最新的鞋子的產品", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1017, "start": 2870.733, "end": 2871.766, "text": "然後把它放到購物車", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1018, "start": 2871.766, "end": 2872.933, "text": "那你有這個目標", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1019, "start": 2872.966, "end": 2877.8, "text": "然後你現在的網頁的狀態是這樣", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1020, "start": 2877.833, "end": 2879.4, "text": "你有這些按鈕", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1021, "start": 2879.4, "end": 2882.833, "text": "然後這些按鈕現在目前是呈現這些狀態", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1022, "start": 2882.866, "end": 2886.933, "text": "那你的選項就是有幾個層次", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1023, "start": 2886.966, "end": 2890.633, "text": "第一層次是你要選你的動作是什麼", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1024, "start": 2890.666, "end": 2892.6, "text": "就是按，你要按按鈕嗎？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1025, "start": 2892.633, "end": 2894.733, "text": "還是你要滑動？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1026, "start": 2894.733, "end": 2896.033, "text": "還是你要 blah blah whatever", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1027, "start": 2896.066, "end": 2898.4, "text": "然後你選完了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1028, "start": 2898.4, "end": 2899.233, "text": "第一個動作之後", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1029, "start": 2899.266, "end": 2900.7, "text": "你接下來第二個問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1030, "start": 2900.733, "end": 2902.0, "text": "就你就它就問說", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1031, "start": 2902.0, "end": 2903.166, "text": "你要按按鈕的話", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1032, "start": 2903.166, "end": 2906.7, "text": "那網路上，你的網頁上有這些", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1033, "start": 2906.733, "end": 2908.933, "text": "所有的按鈕可能加起來", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1034, "start": 2908.933, "end": 2911.966, "text": "這個幾十個，不要超過 255 個就好了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1035, "start": 2912.0, "end": 2913.433, "text": "可能 100 多個之類的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1036, "start": 2913.466, "end": 2915.4, "text": "whatever，應該不會這麼多啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1037, "start": 2915.433, "end": 2917.0, "text": "可能 50 個好了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1038, "start": 2917.0, "end": 2917.966, "text": "50 個按鈕", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1039, "start": 2917.966, "end": 2919.6, "text": "請問你要選擇按哪一個？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1040, "start": 2919.6, "end": 2921.733, "text": "這也是一個選擇題啊，你就選了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1041, "start": 2921.733, "end": 2924.433, "text": "然後你就完成了這次的操作啊，不是嗎？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1042, "start": 2924.866, "end": 2929.4, "text": "那很明顯這個會比現在的 LLM 快非常多", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1043, "start": 2929.433, "end": 2933.366, "text": "而且確實在進行 computer use 的過程當中", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1044, "start": 2933.366, "end": 2938.133, "text": "你當然可能 high-level 的策略，然後要做什麼", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1045, "start": 2938.133, "end": 2940.766, "text": "還是應該交給 LLM 去思考去制定", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1046, "start": 2940.8, "end": 2941.566, "text": "沒錯", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1047, "start": 2941.566, "end": 2944.233, "text": "但過程中會有超多這種小按鈕", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1048, "start": 2944.266, "end": 2947.133, "text": "點來點去這種簡單很直覺的操作", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1049, "start": 2947.433, "end": 2950.0, "text": "是不是理論上也都可以交給 Jev 處理？沒錯", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1050, "start": 2950.4, "end": 2952.0, "text": "Jev 的能力是真的到的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1051, "start": 2952.033, "end": 2954.066, "text": "它真的是可以做到這件事情的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1052, "start": 2954.166, "end": 2959.7, "text": "然後確實網路上我們也看到蠻多的這些 demo 在使用 Jev 去操作電腦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1053, "start": 2959.733, "end": 2962.266, "text": "然後結果也真的都超級好的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1054, "start": 2962.266, "end": 2965.1, "text": "尤其有些有跟一般的 LLM 去進行比對的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1055, "start": 2965.133, "end": 2967.233, "text": "像是我有看到有一個 GitHub Repo", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1056, "start": 2967.266, "end": 2970.933, "text": "他們是拿由 Jev 組成的 computer use 系統", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1057, "start": 2970.933, "end": 2975.2, "text": "跟這個 Claude Opus 的 computer use 去進行比較", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1058, "start": 2975.233, "end": 2977.833, "text": "然後結果真的是蠻扯的啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1059, "start": 2977.833, "end": 2981.8, "text": "就是 Jev 跟 Opus 都一樣有完成目標", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1060, "start": 2981.8, "end": 2986.233, "text": "但是 Jev 它的成本比 Opus 低了一百多倍", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1061, "start": 2986.633, "end": 2991.2, "text": "然後這個 Latency，就是整體的這個速度呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1062, "start": 2991.2, "end": 2993.466, "text": "也比 Opus 快蠻多的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1063, "start": 2993.5, "end": 2995.433, "text": "但是並沒有快一百多倍喔", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1064, "start": 2995.466, "end": 2998.1, "text": "它只有快三倍左右，OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1065, "start": 2998.433, "end": 3000.633, "text": "那聽到這邊你可能就覺得很奇怪", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1066, "start": 3000.633, "end": 3003.6, "text": "就 Jev 它不是應該要比 Opus 快超級多倍嗎？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1067, "start": 3003.866, "end": 3007.266, "text": "好，就它等於是每一個步驟只有產生一個 token 啊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1068, "start": 3007.3, "end": 3009.266, "text": "好，甚至一兩個 token 之類的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1069, "start": 3009.3, "end": 3010.666, "text": "那應該快很多才對啊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1070, "start": 3010.666, "end": 3012.9, "text": "欸，但是沒有。為什麼？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1071, "start": 3012.9, "end": 3016.366, "text": "好，因為 Jev 它不能獨立地就操作電腦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1072, "start": 3016.4, "end": 3020.6, "text": "它要有其他的東西，其他的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1073, "start": 3020.6, "end": 3024.466, "text": "首先，Jev 沒有視覺能力", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1074, "start": 3024.466, "end": 3028.733, "text": "所以它無法直接看網頁目前狀況的截圖", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1075, "start": 3028.766, "end": 3031.966, "text": "它必須要讀網站的 DOM Tree", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1076, "start": 3032.0, "end": 3035.166, "text": "看網站本身的原始 HTML", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1077, "start": 3035.2, "end": 3039.2, "text": "看網站的 accessibility tags", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1078, "start": 3041.9, "end": 3045.666, "text": "就是網頁中針對網頁各個按鈕", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1079, "start": 3045.7, "end": 3047.866, "text": "它會有一個這個按鈕", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1080, "start": 3047.866, "end": 3049.833, "text": "它是什麼東西的標示", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1081, "start": 3049.866, "end": 3053.933, "text": "它這個標示會存在呢，其實是為了一些特殊的狀況", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1082, "start": 3054.066, "end": 3056.333, "text": "就比如說你眼睛看不到", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1083, "start": 3056.366, "end": 3059.9, "text": "對於盲人來說呢，你要使用一個網頁", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1084, "start": 3059.9, "end": 3063.9, "text": "它可能會就是有一些朗讀的功能啊等等的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1085, "start": 3063.9, "end": 3065.633, "text": "那瀏覽器的朗讀功能呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1086, "start": 3065.666, "end": 3067.9, "text": "其實就是在讀這些標示這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1087, "start": 3068.333, "end": 3070.233, "text": "那 Jev 就是要靠著這些東西", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1088, "start": 3070.266, "end": 3072.166, "text": "然後再加上一個 OCR 的模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1089, "start": 3072.433, "end": 3073.5, "text": "這個 OCR 的模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1090, "start": 3073.5, "end": 3075.966, "text": "就是 Optical Character Recognition 嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1091, "start": 3076.0, "end": 3076.633, "text": "對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1092, "start": 3077.2, "end": 3079.2, "text": "這個就是我們常見的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1093, "start": 3079.233, "end": 3082.233, "text": "一個圖像的文字識別模型這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1094, "start": 3082.7, "end": 3084.1, "text": "OK，就是它會從", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1095, "start": 3084.133, "end": 3087.7, "text": "一個圖像裡面擷取出這圖像目前有哪些文字", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1096, "start": 3087.7, "end": 3091.566, "text": "然後可能有些時候還會跟你講它在哪個地方", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1097, "start": 3091.566, "end": 3093.5, "text": "然後哪個方位這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1098, "start": 3093.5, "end": 3097.666, "text": "那反正 Jev 就只能靠著這些東西去操作電腦嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1099, "start": 3097.966, "end": 3100.8, "text": "那你可以想像這邊其實也會帶來一些限制", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1100, "start": 3101.066, "end": 3104.2, "text": "就是包括很多網站的體驗呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1101, "start": 3104.233, "end": 3108.733, "text": "其實你單純靠這些是沒有辦法真的完全正常操作的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1102, "start": 3108.766, "end": 3110.833, "text": "首先，很多的網站、很多頁面", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1103, "start": 3110.833, "end": 3113.766, "text": "它的 accessibility tags 就沒有做得很好", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1104, "start": 3113.966, "end": 3114.166, "text": "OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1105, "start": 3114.4, "end": 3117.633, "text": "就是它本來就不是非常盲人 friendly 的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1106, "start": 3117.633, "end": 3119.5, "text": "就是有一些缺陷這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1107, "start": 3119.866, "end": 3121.133, "text": "像是 Notion 啊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1108, "start": 3121.133, "end": 3123.666, "text": "它可能就沒有完全 full coverage", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1109, "start": 3123.7, "end": 3126.5, "text": "那這個時候你可能就只能靠 OCR 了嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1110, "start": 3126.5, "end": 3127.033, "text": "對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1111, "start": 3127.066, "end": 3129.6, "text": "因為你的 accessibility tags 沒有辦法", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1112, "start": 3129.6, "end": 3132.166, "text": "讓你直接點到你想要點的按鈕", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1113, "start": 3132.2, "end": 3134.6, "text": "但 OCR 也有它的缺陷", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1114, "start": 3134.633, "end": 3136.9, "text": "就是它只能判斷文字嘛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1115, "start": 3136.9, "end": 3140.166, "text": "就假設今天這個按鈕是一個圖示的話", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1116, "start": 3140.2, "end": 3143.266, "text": "你是不是就完全沒有辦法點到了？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1117, "start": 3143.966, "end": 3146.166, "text": "Jev 就點不到這個按鈕了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1118, "start": 3146.433, "end": 3149.466, "text": "今天如果你的這個網站體驗又是", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1119, "start": 3149.466, "end": 3152.1, "text": "一個比較互動程度比較高的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1120, "start": 3152.133, "end": 3157.1, "text": "比如說有很多 slider 啊，然後有些細膩的操作啊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1121, "start": 3157.1, "end": 3162.533, "text": "然後有一些比如說需要視覺推理的部分啊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1122, "start": 3162.533, "end": 3164.7, "text": "這種東西，這些所有的操作", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1123, "start": 3164.733, "end": 3166.966, "text": "其實 Jev 都沒有辦法去做到", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1124, "start": 3167.133, "end": 3169.566, "text": "然後你要知道，這不是一個模態的問題而已喔", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1125, "start": 3169.7, "end": 3171.9, "text": "就是我相信下一代的 Jev", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1126, "start": 3172.033, "end": 3173.766, "text": "絕對會有視覺能力，OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1127, "start": 3173.966, "end": 3177.433, "text": "這個本身不是一個太困難的一件事情嘛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1128, "start": 3177.533, "end": 3179.2, "text": "現在所有 LLM 都有視覺能力", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1129, "start": 3179.233, "end": 3180.6, "text": "Jev 也可以有視覺能力", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1130, "start": 3180.6, "end": 3183.633, "text": "因為 Jev 本身就是一個 LLM 的基底嘛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1131, "start": 3183.633, "end": 3187.2, "text": "但是它有了視覺能力之後也不會解決這個問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1132, "start": 3187.233, "end": 3191.133, "text": "它也不可能跟 Opus 跟這個 Astra 一樣", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1133, "start": 3191.166, "end": 3195.166, "text": "這樣子去像人類一樣看著螢幕去使用電腦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1134, "start": 3195.166, "end": 3196.166, "text": "為什麼？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1135, "start": 3196.166, "end": 3199.733, "text": "因為網頁上能點的東西已經超過你的選項了嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1136, "start": 3199.766, "end": 3200.6, "text": "對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1137, "start": 3201.2, "end": 3204.0, "text": "就是你的網頁上所有能點的東西", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1138, "start": 3204.033, "end": 3208.6, "text": "就是可能你幾千個 pixel 乘幾千個 pixel", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1139, "start": 3208.6, "end": 3210.0, "text": "幾百萬個耶", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1140, "start": 3210.0, "end": 3212.533, "text": "你有幾百萬個可能可以點的東西耶", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1141, "start": 3212.533, "end": 3213.9, "text": "那像是 LLM", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1142, "start": 3213.933, "end": 3217.9, "text": "它就可以每次都輸出一個座標，OK，精準的座標", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1143, "start": 3217.933, "end": 3219.266, "text": "任何網頁上", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1144, "start": 3219.3, "end": 3220.533, "text": "它只要看得到的地方", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1145, "start": 3220.533, "end": 3221.666, "text": "它都可以點得到", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1146, "start": 3221.666, "end": 3222.966, "text": "然後看得到的東西", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1147, "start": 3223.0, "end": 3223.966, "text": "它都可以點得到", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1148, "start": 3223.966, "end": 3227.3, "text": "它完全不用管這個網頁它本身背後怎麼寫的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1149, "start": 3227.333, "end": 3231.966, "text": "但是 Jev，它因為只有 255 個選項可以選", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1150, "start": 3231.966, "end": 3235.7, "text": "而且就算你未來下一代 Jev 選項更多", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1151, "start": 3235.733, "end": 3237.433, "text": "變成這個兩倍啊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1152, "start": 3237.466, "end": 3239.4, "text": "四倍啊，無論如何", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1153, "start": 3239.4, "end": 3243.566, "text": "不可能真的達到一個網頁所有能夠點的內容", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1154, "start": 3243.6, "end": 3246.333, "text": "那就只有這些選項可以選", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1155, "start": 3246.966, "end": 3248.033, "text": "就是只能想辦法", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1156, "start": 3248.066, "end": 3249.7, "text": "把目前這個網頁所有", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1157, "start": 3249.7, "end": 3252.833, "text": "可以點的東西想辦法呈現在這個選項當中", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1158, "start": 3252.866, "end": 3255.433, "text": "那這就會是一個先天上的限制", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1159, "start": 3255.466, "end": 3257.2, "text": "所以說先天上 Jev", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1160, "start": 3257.2, "end": 3261.366, "text": "它就不可能能夠完成所有 computer use 的工作", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1161, "start": 3261.366, "end": 3262.433, "text": "它只能解決", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1162, "start": 3262.466, "end": 3266.033, "text": "就是網頁寫得好的、很 straightforward 的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1163, "start": 3266.033, "end": 3268.466, "text": "很單純的一些反覆的操作，OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1164, "start": 3268.466, "end": 3269.766, "text": "它可以執行得非常好。好", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1165, "start": 3269.8, "end": 3274.333, "text": "像是其實上禮拜我有測試用 Astra 去幫我訂餐廳", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1166, "start": 3274.366, "end": 3276.1, "text": "然後你知道多扯嗎？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1167, "start": 3276.1, "end": 3277.3, "text": "原本 Astra", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1168, "start": 3277.333, "end": 3280.933, "text": "可以很精準地選到我需要的人數跟時間", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1169, "start": 3280.933, "end": 3282.933, "text": "那個我一點都不意外", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1170, "start": 3283.166, "end": 3286.866, "text": "我意外的是，Astra 直接幫我把 CAPTCHA 做完耶", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1171, "start": 3288.066, "end": 3290.333, "text": "那有夠扯的，就那個網站", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1172, "start": 3290.333, "end": 3292.6, "text": "訂餐網站它有個 CAPTCHA", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1173, "start": 3292.633, "end": 3296.6, "text": "是，CAPTCHA 就是那個網站拿來擋機器人的嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1174, "start": 3296.6, "end": 3296.833, "text": "對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1175, "start": 3296.866, "end": 3299.133, "text": "就是你要驗證你不是一個機器人", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1176, "start": 3299.133, "end": 3302.0, "text": "它有時候會給你一些小測驗嘛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1177, "start": 3302.466, "end": 3305.233, "text": "有時候是最簡單的就是辨識花字啊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1178, "start": 3305.266, "end": 3307.1, "text": "但花字那個現在已經越來越少了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1179, "start": 3307.133, "end": 3309.733, "text": "因為現在對於現在的 AI 來說太簡單了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1180, "start": 3309.733, "end": 3312.233, "text": "所以這個網站的 CAPTCHA 是什麼，你知道嗎？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1181, "start": 3312.566, "end": 3314.033, "text": "它是三個角色", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1182, "start": 3314.033, "end": 3315.466, "text": "卡通角色在那邊跳", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1183, "start": 3315.466, "end": 3318.4, "text": "然後一直不斷地跳，動態地在那邊跳", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1184, "start": 3318.433, "end": 3320.366, "text": "然後你要選出跳最高的那一個", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1185, "start": 3320.366, "end": 3324.066, "text": "那這個對於一般的模型來說都超難的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1186, "start": 3324.1, "end": 3326.033, "text": "但是 Astra 竟然解決了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1187, "start": 3326.033, "end": 3327.466, "text": "你知道多扯嗎？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1188, "start": 3327.5, "end": 3328.033, "text": "就是 Astra", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1189, "start": 3328.066, "end": 3330.766, "text": "它的解決方法就是它會截圖", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1190, "start": 3330.766, "end": 3333.133, "text": "目前看這三個角色誰跳最高", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1191, "start": 3333.166, "end": 3337.0, "text": "然後它就它一開始就直接截一張圖就直接選了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1192, "start": 3337.033, "end": 3339.0, "text": "它就發現這樣選", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1193, "start": 3339.033, "end": 3340.233, "text": "它會選錯", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1194, "start": 3340.233, "end": 3342.766, "text": "然後它就自己想一想，就發現說不行", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1195, "start": 3342.8, "end": 3344.266, "text": "我應該要多截幾張圖", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1196, "start": 3344.3, "end": 3346.666, "text": "我才可以得到一個動態的狀況", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1197, "start": 3346.7, "end": 3349.766, "text": "因為剛好有可能這個角色原本會跳最高", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1198, "start": 3349.8, "end": 3351.1, "text": "但它，我截圖的時候", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1199, "start": 3351.1, "end": 3352.9, "text": "它剛好在最低點嘛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1200, "start": 3352.933, "end": 3354.9, "text": "所以它就開始截很多張圖", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1201, "start": 3354.9, "end": 3356.466, "text": "然後它的準確率就變超高", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1202, "start": 3356.5, "end": 3359.333, "text": "然後就一下就把那個 CAPTCHA 解決了這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1203, "start": 3359.333, "end": 3361.033, "text": "反正我覺得很酷啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1204, "start": 3361.133, "end": 3362.5, "text": "但像這種問題呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1205, "start": 3362.533, "end": 3365.6, "text": "Jev 就完全沒有辦法去解決，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1206, "start": 3366.133, "end": 3369.9, "text": "就你怎麼靠 OCR 去解決這樣子的 CAPTCHA？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1207, "start": 3369.933, "end": 3371.033, "text": "就不可能嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1208, "start": 3371.1, "end": 3373.7, "text": "所以我覺得 Jev 在 computer use", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1209, "start": 3373.7, "end": 3375.966, "text": "這件事情上面絕對會有價值的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1210, "start": 3376.2, "end": 3379.6, "text": "但是它沒有辦法就直接取代掉現在的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1211, "start": 3379.6, "end": 3383.0, "text": "這個 GPT-6 Astra 的 computer use", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1212, "start": 3383.4, "end": 3385.366, "text": "你今天一個使用者可能問", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1213, "start": 3385.366, "end": 3387.833, "text": "GPT-6 Astra 的問題有無限多種", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1214, "start": 3387.933, "end": 3390.2, "text": "它可能會操作的網站有無限多種", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1215, "start": 3390.633, "end": 3394.733, "text": "你不可能預先想到哪些狀況你可以使用 Jev", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1216, "start": 3395.833, "end": 3399.233, "text": "假設今天你就是很明確地有", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1217, "start": 3399.266, "end": 3403.2, "text": "一個工作流是要操作特定的網站", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1218, "start": 3403.233, "end": 3405.1, "text": "然後要做特定的操作的話", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1219, "start": 3405.1, "end": 3407.866, "text": "你確實如果有這個固定的工作流", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1220, "start": 3407.866, "end": 3411.0, "text": "你可以讓 Jev 去處理一部分的工作，OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1221, "start": 3411.033, "end": 3413.4, "text": "很標準化的流程，很標準化的網站", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1222, "start": 3413.4, "end": 3415.833, "text": "你就直接讓 Jev 去做，那就會很快", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1223, "start": 3416.033, "end": 3418.033, "text": "好，那我自己也有簡單實測一下", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1224, "start": 3418.033, "end": 3419.366, "text": "Jev 它的能力這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1225, "start": 3420.4, "end": 3423.9, "text": "我其實有試很多不同 Category 的問題啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1226, "start": 3423.9, "end": 3426.1, "text": "但是滿多都是假想的問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1227, "start": 3426.4, "end": 3428.866, "text": "我覺得一個最直接最真實的問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1228, "start": 3428.866, "end": 3430.333, "text": "我有叫它去用的是", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1229, "start": 3430.366, "end": 3434.7, "text": "我叫 Jev 去幫我的真實信件歸類", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1230, "start": 3434.7, "end": 3438.266, "text": "這個是我真實的信件，是來自我的信箱", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1231, "start": 3438.266, "end": 3440.633, "text": "我真實收到的工作的信件", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1232, "start": 3441.066, "end": 3442.466, "text": "我叫它去幫我分類", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1233, "start": 3442.466, "end": 3444.333, "text": "然後這個其實也是我可能", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1234, "start": 3444.333, "end": 3446.333, "text": "可以融入工作流的一個部分", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1235, "start": 3446.366, "end": 3447.933, "text": "因為我工作流", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1236, "start": 3447.966, "end": 3452.233, "text": "我現在有一個龍蝦在幫我處理管理專案嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1237, "start": 3452.266, "end": 3457.866, "text": "它會幫我讀信件，幫我理解我目前每個專案的進度", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1238, "start": 3457.866, "end": 3461.033, "text": "我有時候常常問這個龍蝦的問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1239, "start": 3461.066, "end": 3465.366, "text": "就是我現在有哪些信件是緊急要我回的？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1240, "start": 3465.4, "end": 3469.566, "text": "我覺得龍蝦目前回答這個問題都回答得非常好", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1241, "start": 3469.566, "end": 3472.766, "text": "但它確實會需要花一點時間", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1242, "start": 3472.8, "end": 3476.0, "text": "然後每一封去讀，再去判斷", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1243, "start": 3476.033, "end": 3476.733, "text": "再去思考", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1244, "start": 3476.733, "end": 3479.966, "text": "所以我這邊就直接叫 Jev", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1245, "start": 3479.966, "end": 3483.733, "text": "去幫我針對我給它範例的信件", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1246, "start": 3483.766, "end": 3485.766, "text": "去給出一些回答這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1247, "start": 3485.766, "end": 3489.5, "text": "緊急程度是其中一個，但我也有問其他問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1248, "start": 3489.533, "end": 3492.4, "text": "比如說直接幫我為這封信分類", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1249, "start": 3492.433, "end": 3497.433, "text": "它是一個活動邀約，還是一個 scheduling 相關的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1250, "start": 3497.433, "end": 3500.133, "text": "還是一個 finance 相關的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1251, "start": 3500.166, "end": 3502.933, "text": "還是 follow-up，還是一個 FYI 等等", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1252, "start": 3502.966, "end": 3506.9, "text": "然後目前的狀態等等，反正我有問它很多問題啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1253, "start": 3506.9, "end": 3510.366, "text": "那我覺得直接跟大家講結論啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1254, "start": 3510.366, "end": 3512.833, "text": "就是絕大多數的問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1255, "start": 3512.866, "end": 3516.633, "text": "它回答都是完全正確的，然後機率分布", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1256, "start": 3516.633, "end": 3518.333, "text": "我覺得也是非常接近的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1257, "start": 3518.366, "end": 3521.133, "text": "尤其是有一題我覺得非常令我驚豔的喔", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1258, "start": 3521.166, "end": 3523.033, "text": "就是那一題呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1259, "start": 3523.033, "end": 3526.9, "text": "那封信呢，是一個繳費，活動繳費的提醒，OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1260, "start": 3526.933, "end": 3529.466, "text": "但是 tricky 的地方就是在於", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1261, "start": 3529.466, "end": 3532.9, "text": "這個繳費期限已經過了，過了一天了，OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1262, "start": 3532.933, "end": 3535.266, "text": "所以現在已經沒有辦法繳費了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1263, "start": 3535.3, "end": 3536.366, "text": "那針對這封信", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1264, "start": 3536.366, "end": 3538.033, "text": "它的緊急程度是多高？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1265, "start": 3538.066, "end": 3540.9, "text": "那這邊確實是有一點討論空間沒錯嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1266, "start": 3540.9, "end": 3541.133, "text": "對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1267, "start": 3541.133, "end": 3544.266, "text": "就有一些人可能會覺得", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1268, "start": 3544.3, "end": 3545.8, "text": "那它就不緊急了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1269, "start": 3545.833, "end": 3549.033, "text": "應該說現在就完全不緊急了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1270, "start": 3549.166, "end": 3551.766, "text": "因為你不用管它，因為已經錯過繳費期限啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1271, "start": 3551.833, "end": 3554.133, "text": "There's nothing you can do，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1272, "start": 3554.533, "end": 3557.2, "text": "有些人可能會這樣覺得，但是像我自己", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1273, "start": 3557.233, "end": 3561.7, "text": "我個人覺得這個答案應該是非常緊急", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1274, "start": 3561.733, "end": 3563.1, "text": "應該是最緊急的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1275, "start": 3563.1, "end": 3565.9, "text": "因為繳費期限還沒過太久", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1276, "start": 3565.933, "end": 3570.133, "text": "還在 24 小時，只是超過 24 小時之內", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1277, "start": 3571.266, "end": 3574.3, "text": "有可能有些活動單位，假設是重要活動的話", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1278, "start": 3574.3, "end": 3575.966, "text": "他可能也是會通融一下", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1279, "start": 3576.0, "end": 3578.433, "text": "然後就是讓我繳費嘛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1280, "start": 3578.433, "end": 3581.966, "text": "所以說我自己個人還是會把它排成緊急啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1281, "start": 3582.7, "end": 3585.933, "text": "像是 GPT-6 針對這一題呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1282, "start": 3585.933, "end": 3589.8, "text": "它給出的答案就是「無法判斷」", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1283, "start": 3590.066, "end": 3595.233, "text": "那 Jev 它針對這題給出的判斷就是「非常緊急」", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1284, "start": 3595.5, "end": 3598.5, "text": "我覺得非常緊急就是比較好的一個答案", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1285, "start": 3598.833, "end": 3600.6, "text": "Jev 甚至贏過了 GPT-6", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1286, "start": 3600.6, "end": 3602.7, "text": "我覺得這個答案是非常好的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1287, "start": 3603.2, "end": 3609.433, "text": "雖然說它的整體的機率分布也沒有到非常有自信啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1288, "start": 3609.466, "end": 3614.033, "text": "Jev 它選擇非常緊急的機率是 47%", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1289, "start": 3614.066, "end": 3617.466, "text": "OK，所以它也不是超級自信覺得這是非常緊急的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1290, "start": 3617.7, "end": 3619.2, "text": "那這也是 good sign", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1291, "start": 3619.233, "end": 3622.133, "text": "因為這題它本來就不應該有超級高的信心", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1292, "start": 3622.333, "end": 3626.666, "text": "所以 overall 我覺得 Jev 給出的答案都是完全沒有問題的啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1293, "start": 3627.0, "end": 3630.366, "text": "那當然我也沒有特別去 challenge", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1294, "start": 3630.4, "end": 3632.7, "text": "它一些太刁鑽的問題啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1295, "start": 3632.733, "end": 3636.433, "text": "因為我就真的是拿我的真實的 use case 去測試", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1296, "start": 3637.3, "end": 3638.466, "text": "目前的結果是非常好的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1297, "start": 3638.666, "end": 3641.833, "text": "當然啦，我覺得這個本來就是預料中的結果", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1298, "start": 3641.866, "end": 3643.433, "text": "這也沒什麼好意外的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1299, "start": 3643.433, "end": 3648.033, "text": "因為現在的 LLM 本來就是有很好的判斷能力", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1300, "start": 3648.033, "end": 3652.266, "text": "Jev 對於這些一般的問題的判斷完全正確", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1301, "start": 3652.3, "end": 3654.833, "text": "我覺得一點都不值得驚訝啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1302, "start": 3654.833, "end": 3656.933, "text": "我覺得還蠻正常的啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1303, "start": 3656.966, "end": 3661.0, "text": "主要還是說它的穩定性 overall 是真的很好的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1304, "start": 3661.033, "end": 3664.166, "text": "然後確實延遲跟成本也明顯", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1305, "start": 3664.166, "end": 3668.366, "text": "明顯是有跟一般的 LLM 比起來很好的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1306, "start": 3668.4, "end": 3670.4, "text": "所以我目前測試到現在", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1307, "start": 3670.433, "end": 3674.2, "text": "我是覺得 Jev 確實可以融入我的工作流當中", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1308, "start": 3674.466, "end": 3677.133, "text": "只是具體來說怎麼操作", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1309, "start": 3677.133, "end": 3681.5, "text": "我還要再花點時間去思考然後再去實驗", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1310, "start": 3681.933, "end": 3685.933, "text": "但我已經可以看到它的融入工作流的潛能了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1311, "start": 3686.066, "end": 3687.6, "text": "最後我們來聊一下", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1312, "start": 3687.633, "end": 3691.066, "text": "Jev 這個模型對於 AI 的意義究竟是什麼？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1313, "start": 3691.533, "end": 3695.4, "text": "因為我覺得有一些人可能稍微把", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1314, "start": 3695.4, "end": 3698.866, "text": "這個 Jev 吹得有點太強大了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1315, "start": 3698.866, "end": 3703.266, "text": "講得好像是 Jev 會改變一切的這種感覺", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1316, "start": 3703.3, "end": 3706.166, "text": "我自己在看 Jev 這個模型的時候", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1317, "start": 3706.166, "end": 3709.2, "text": "當我真的開始完全理解它之後", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1318, "start": 3709.233, "end": 3718.1, "text": "我覺得它不像是一個會大幅改變現在的 AI agent 典範的一個模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1319, "start": 3718.133, "end": 3724.366, "text": "它比較像是在加速一個原本就有在發生的變化", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1320, "start": 3724.366, "end": 3726.733, "text": "這個變化，這個趨勢呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1321, "start": 3726.766, "end": 3731.333, "text": "就是所謂的 model routing，模型路由的趨勢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1322, "start": 3731.766, "end": 3734.533, "text": "它是在加速這個趨勢的進展而已", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1323, "start": 3734.566, "end": 3737.733, "text": "並不是說把我們帶到了一條新的路上", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1324, "start": 3738.266, "end": 3739.466, "text": "為什麼會這樣說呢？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1325, "start": 3739.866, "end": 3740.033, "text": "首先", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1326, "start": 3740.033, "end": 3742.566, "text": "我們知道我們現在在使用 AI agent 的這個方式", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1327, "start": 3742.566, "end": 3745.833, "text": "並不是成本效率上面最優化的方式嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1328, "start": 3745.866, "end": 3746.3, "text": "對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1329, "start": 3746.3, "end": 3747.3, "text": "很明顯嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1330, "start": 3747.666, "end": 3751.5, "text": "就你今天訂閱那個 ChatGPT 200 美金的方案", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1331, "start": 3751.5, "end": 3754.2, "text": "然後你叫 Astra 去做一件事情", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1332, "start": 3754.766, "end": 3756.033, "text": "它從頭到尾", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1333, "start": 3756.033, "end": 3759.833, "text": "從這個問題最一開始的思考，這個計畫", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1334, "start": 3759.866, "end": 3763.233, "text": "然後到實際做這個 computer use 的每一個步驟", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1335, "start": 3763.266, "end": 3765.166, "text": "全部都是它自己完成的嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1336, "start": 3765.2, "end": 3765.8, "text": "對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1337, "start": 3765.8, "end": 3768.933, "text": "它並不會做到一半覺得這個問題比較簡單", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1338, "start": 3768.966, "end": 3771.433, "text": "它就直接丟給那個 Luna 去解決", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1339, "start": 3771.733, "end": 3774.5, "text": "它可能會有 multi-agent system 沒錯", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1340, "start": 3774.533, "end": 3776.6, "text": "但是它就是 multiple Astra", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1341, "start": 3776.6, "end": 3778.366, "text": "全部都是 Astra 這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1342, "start": 3778.633, "end": 3780.933, "text": "但很明顯這邊有很多的成本跟", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1343, "start": 3780.933, "end": 3782.733, "text": "這個效率的優化空間嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1344, "start": 3782.766, "end": 3783.566, "text": "對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1345, "start": 3784.166, "end": 3787.6, "text": "很多簡單的事情真的不需要去交給 Astra 做", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1346, "start": 3788.3, "end": 3794.3, "text": "未來呢，我覺得絕大多數人現在都有共識的一點", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1347, "start": 3794.833, "end": 3801.133, "text": "未來我們會漸漸地走向一個更多 model routing 的混合系統", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1348, "start": 3801.133, "end": 3803.666, "text": "有更多模型路由的系統", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1349, "start": 3803.666, "end": 3807.633, "text": "同樣一個系統當中會有弱跟強的模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1350, "start": 3807.666, "end": 3812.2, "text": "然後會動態地去決定目前這件事情要交給誰去處理", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1351, "start": 3812.2, "end": 3813.833, "text": "那為什麼 model routing", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1352, "start": 3813.866, "end": 3816.2, "text": "這樣的系統現在還沒有辦法普及呢？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1353, "start": 3816.333, "end": 3818.766, "text": "不是很多人都覺得這個是未來嗎？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1354, "start": 3818.866, "end": 3820.8, "text": "為什麼大家沒有一直往這邊走呢？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1355, "start": 3821.233, "end": 3823.933, "text": "我覺得目前有個蠻核心的卡點", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1356, "start": 3823.966, "end": 3827.3, "text": "就是主要是因為模型的能力進步", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1357, "start": 3827.3, "end": 3830.466, "text": "模型的能力變化實在是太過快速了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1358, "start": 3830.466, "end": 3833.933, "text": "導致整個工作流的變化也非常的快速", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1359, "start": 3833.966, "end": 3836.933, "text": "我們現在的一個 LLM 的工作流呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1360, "start": 3836.933, "end": 3838.633, "text": "可能年初是長這樣", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1361, "start": 3838.666, "end": 3840.166, "text": "這個年中就變了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1362, "start": 3840.166, "end": 3844.533, "text": "你中間很多的步驟可能因為模型能力提升就改變了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1363, "start": 3844.566, "end": 3847.333, "text": "好，那你工作流沒有辦法定下來", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1364, "start": 3847.333, "end": 3849.833, "text": "你就比較難有一個", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1365, "start": 3849.833, "end": 3854.3, "text": "就是穩定地知道你有哪些事情要做", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1366, "start": 3854.3, "end": 3858.166, "text": "那你就比較難就是穩定地去指派某一些不同的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1367, "start": 3858.2, "end": 3860.3, "text": "AI 模型去做這些事情嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1368, "start": 3860.333, "end": 3861.866, "text": "那當然對於有一些人", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1369, "start": 3861.866, "end": 3864.333, "text": "他的工作流可能現在已經蠻標準了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1370, "start": 3864.366, "end": 3866.533, "text": "很確定了就是做這些事情", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1371, "start": 3866.566, "end": 3870.7, "text": "然後就是要大量重複進行一些簡單的操作的時候", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1372, "start": 3870.7, "end": 3874.433, "text": "他確實就是可以在他的 harness 當中", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1373, "start": 3874.433, "end": 3878.166, "text": "把這個 model routing 做得蠻不錯的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1374, "start": 3878.2, "end": 3881.2, "text": "但是這樣子的人並不是大多數啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1375, "start": 3881.233, "end": 3881.566, "text": "OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1376, "start": 3881.566, "end": 3885.966, "text": "然後 OpenAI 也沒有覺得他們的這個產品", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1377, "start": 3885.966, "end": 3888.666, "text": "可以成熟到直接把 model routing", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1378, "start": 3888.7, "end": 3891.333, "text": "就是加到他們的這個 Agent 當中", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1379, "start": 3891.333, "end": 3893.4, "text": "那他們其實之前有嘗試啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1380, "start": 3893.6, "end": 3897.4, "text": "就是我有點忘了是 GPT-5 那一代還是哪一代", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1381, "start": 3897.8, "end": 3899.466, "text": "但反正有一代模型呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1382, "start": 3899.466, "end": 3903.0, "text": "就是你有一陣子你是不知道你在用哪個模型的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1383, "start": 3903.4, "end": 3904.133, "text": "大家還記得嗎？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1384, "start": 3904.166, "end": 3906.133, "text": "就你有時候，它根據你的問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1385, "start": 3906.133, "end": 3908.933, "text": "它會給你一個比較爛的模型、比較笨的模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1386, "start": 3909.233, "end": 3910.566, "text": "有時候又是比較好的模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1387, "start": 3911.3, "end": 3915.533, "text": "那我記得那陣子就得到超多人的批評", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1388, "start": 3915.533, "end": 3918.433, "text": "所以後來 OpenAI 就不幹這件事情了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1389, "start": 3918.466, "end": 3920.8, "text": "大家還是自己選模型這樣", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1390, "start": 3920.8, "end": 3924.566, "text": "但你要知道，我覺得很多人會想要自己選模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1391, "start": 3924.6, "end": 3927.133, "text": "並不是因為他們真的想要自己選模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1392, "start": 3927.133, "end": 3932.033, "text": "而是因為 OpenAI 當時的 model router 真的太爛了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1393, "start": 3932.066, "end": 3936.633, "text": "然後，我覺得很多人可能他嘴上不願意承認啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1394, "start": 3936.666, "end": 3939.533, "text": "但是如果今天一個 model router", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1395, "start": 3939.533, "end": 3942.666, "text": "可以真的完美地幫他做模型選擇的話", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1396, "start": 3942.7, "end": 3945.066, "text": "沒有人會想要自己選模型啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1397, "start": 3945.066, "end": 3948.6, "text": "因為自己選模型就是額外一個思考的步驟", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1398, "start": 3948.633, "end": 3951.866, "text": "然後額外的手動步驟嘛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1399, "start": 3951.866, "end": 3953.766, "text": "那就還是麻煩啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1400, "start": 3954.333, "end": 3955.9, "text": "OpenAI 也知道這一點", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1401, "start": 3955.9, "end": 3958.433, "text": "他們其實未來所有東西都會合在一起", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1402, "start": 3958.466, "end": 3962.3, "text": "未來那個 Chat 跟 Work 的這兩個 Tab 也會合在一起", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1403, "start": 3962.333, "end": 3965.233, "text": "然後所有 Models 也全部合在一起", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1404, "start": 3965.266, "end": 3968.966, "text": "就是一個統一的介面，任何問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1405, "start": 3968.966, "end": 3972.4, "text": "任何的工作，你都直接丟給它", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1406, "start": 3972.433, "end": 3973.866, "text": "然後它自己會判斷", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1407, "start": 3973.866, "end": 3974.766, "text": "要不要用工具", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1408, "start": 3975.066, "end": 3975.933, "text": "要用哪個模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1409, "start": 3976.066, "end": 3976.866, "text": "要思考多久", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1410, "start": 3977.266, "end": 3978.433, "text": "反正我講了這麼多", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1411, "start": 3978.466, "end": 3980.433, "text": "我只想講說這個 model routing", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1412, "start": 3980.466, "end": 3983.266, "text": "模型路由真的就是未來的趨勢啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1413, "start": 3983.3, "end": 3986.533, "text": "只不過我們還在慢慢地一步一步朝那邊走這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1414, "start": 3987.0, "end": 3989.1, "text": "那我覺得 Jev 的出現呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1415, "start": 3989.1, "end": 3991.666, "text": "它就是會加速這個趨勢的普及", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1416, "start": 3991.666, "end": 3992.933, "text": "OK，為什麼？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1417, "start": 3993.1, "end": 3998.133, "text": "因為首先 Jev 是一個很好的 off-the-shelf 的 model router，OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1418, "start": 3998.133, "end": 4000.3, "text": "off-the-shelf 的意思就是", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1419, "start": 4000.3, "end": 4002.866, "text": "你就直接拿它的 API 來用就好了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1420, "start": 4002.9, "end": 4004.733, "text": "你不用再額外去訓練它", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1421, "start": 4004.733, "end": 4008.733, "text": "它自己本身就有很好的 model routing 的判斷能力", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1422, "start": 4008.733, "end": 4010.733, "text": "這一點我自己也有測試過", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1423, "start": 4010.733, "end": 4012.9, "text": "雖然我是用一些假想的問題", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1424, "start": 4012.9, "end": 4014.566, "text": "但它都判斷得非常好", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1425, "start": 4014.566, "end": 4017.566, "text": "就是哪些問題簡單，要丟給那個小模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1426, "start": 4017.566, "end": 4019.333, "text": "哪些要丟給大模型等等的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1427, "start": 4019.366, "end": 4021.2, "text": "那這件事情本身呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1428, "start": 4021.2, "end": 4026.866, "text": "就是可以降低大家自己實作 model routing 的門檻，對吧？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1429, "start": 4027.166, "end": 4031.266, "text": "至少 Router 本身，這是你不用再煩惱了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1430, "start": 4031.266, "end": 4034.5, "text": "你就丟給 Jev，去判斷就 OK 了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1431, "start": 4034.866, "end": 4039.566, "text": "你只要自己再把它那個問題跟選項調一下", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1432, "start": 4039.6, "end": 4041.566, "text": "應該就沒問題了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1433, "start": 4041.733, "end": 4044.533, "text": "然後降低實作門檻的同時呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1434, "start": 4044.533, "end": 4046.8, "text": "它又因為 Jev 爆紅了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1435, "start": 4046.8, "end": 4051.966, "text": "然後確實也就是真的能夠帶來遠遠超過現在", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1436, "start": 4052.0, "end": 4056.133, "text": "LLM 的這個速度跟成本上面的優化", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1437, "start": 4056.133, "end": 4060.866, "text": "所以說我相信很多人會開始正視 model routing", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1438, "start": 4060.866, "end": 4062.566, "text": "正式想要在", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1439, "start": 4062.566, "end": 4067.966, "text": "自己的架構中混合一些其他的模型這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1440, "start": 4068.0, "end": 4070.8, "text": "當然，Jev 作為 model router 是一種可能性嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1441, "start": 4070.8, "end": 4071.433, "text": "對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1442, "start": 4071.666, "end": 4076.433, "text": "但你直接使用 Jev 這也算是一個這個 model routing 嘛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1443, "start": 4077.0, "end": 4079.7, "text": "就有一些工作交給原本的 LLM 做", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1444, "start": 4079.733, "end": 4081.4, "text": "有一些是 Jev 直接處理", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1445, "start": 4081.433, "end": 4083.233, "text": "這個也算是 model routing 啊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1446, "start": 4083.266, "end": 4085.3, "text": "這也是一個混合的模型架構嘛", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1447, "start": 4085.3, "end": 4085.933, "text": "對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1448, "start": 4085.966, "end": 4088.366, "text": "其實像我就是一個典型的例子嘛，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1449, "start": 4088.9, "end": 4092.533, "text": "現在我的龍蝦基本上就是使用 GPT-5.6", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1450, "start": 4092.533, "end": 4096.8, "text": "其實我應該去換 Astra，但就是還沒找到時間", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1451, "start": 4096.833, "end": 4098.566, "text": "然後目前用起來", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1452, "start": 4098.6, "end": 4102.1, "text": "我的 use case 5.6 已經差不多了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1453, "start": 4102.133, "end": 4105.1, "text": "也沒有到非常有動力想要換", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1454, "start": 4105.133, "end": 4109.966, "text": "反正我現在就是用 5.6，所有事情都是交給它處理", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1455, "start": 4110.733, "end": 4112.9, "text": "Jev 的推出之後，我剛剛不是有跟大家講嗎？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1456, "start": 4112.966, "end": 4115.466, "text": "測試完了那個 Email 的分類之後", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1457, "start": 4115.5, "end": 4118.966, "text": "我是真的覺得我可以把 Jev 融入我的工作流了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1458, "start": 4119.0, "end": 4122.666, "text": "那沒有 Jev 出來之前，其實嚴格來說", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1459, "start": 4122.666, "end": 4126.233, "text": "我做不做得到這件事情？也是可以啊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1460, "start": 4126.366, "end": 4128.0, "text": "我拿一個 Luna", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1461, "start": 4128.033, "end": 4132.2, "text": "或者是我拿一個甚至一個本地的開源模型", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1462, "start": 4132.2, "end": 4134.0, "text": "一個 Qwen 之類的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1463, "start": 4134.033, "end": 4136.966, "text": "跑在我自己的 DGX Spark 上面", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1464, "start": 4136.966, "end": 4139.4, "text": "甚至 Mac mini 都有可能", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1465, "start": 4139.4, "end": 4140.566, "text": "就是超級小的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1466, "start": 4140.566, "end": 4142.1, "text": "其實也是可以啊，對不對？", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1467, "start": 4142.633, "end": 4146.566, "text": "但有 Jev 出現呢，我就更想做這件事情啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1468, "start": 4146.7, "end": 4149.0, "text": "所以我覺得接下來會發生的事情呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1469, "start": 4149.0, "end": 4153.733, "text": "就是當然像我這些自己有在架一些工作流的人", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1470, "start": 4153.733, "end": 4159.3, "text": "就會開始越來越多把 Jev 融入自己的工作流當中", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1471, "start": 4159.3, "end": 4162.833, "text": "能夠節省一些成本跟時間是絕對的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1472, "start": 4162.866, "end": 4165.7, "text": "但也要看你的工作性質", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1473, "start": 4165.866, "end": 4170.033, "text": "對於蠻多的工作來說，可能不會省到超級多", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1474, "start": 4170.6, "end": 4174.0, "text": "然後有些工作會省到超爆多", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1475, "start": 4174.5, "end": 4175.7, "text": "但就是不一樣", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1476, "start": 4175.833, "end": 4177.266, "text": "像對我來說啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1477, "start": 4177.266, "end": 4180.233, "text": "就是它幫我額外 Tag 一下這個", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1478, "start": 4180.266, "end": 4182.533, "text": "Email 是哪一種類別啊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1479, "start": 4182.533, "end": 4184.0, "text": "什麼緊急程度啊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1480, "start": 4184.033, "end": 4187.033, "text": "其實真的對我來說 Impact 沒有到很大啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1481, "start": 4187.166, "end": 4190.733, "text": "它不會省我多少的成本，然後同時可能", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1482, "start": 4190.733, "end": 4191.9, "text": "就是在我問", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1483, "start": 4191.933, "end": 4195.7, "text": "那個問題的時候幫我省下幾秒鐘的時間吧", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1484, "start": 4195.7, "end": 4198.033, "text": "所以對我來說不是一個超級大的 game changer", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1485, "start": 4198.033, "end": 4200.466, "text": "但對於那些比如說要 screen", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1486, "start": 4200.5, "end": 4203.566, "text": "幾千封履歷的人來說絕對是有幫助的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1487, "start": 4203.566, "end": 4206.233, "text": "然後我覺得再下一步呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1488, "start": 4206.266, "end": 4208.833, "text": "就是標準的 AI agent", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1489, "start": 4208.866, "end": 4212.666, "text": "就會開始把 Jev 當作一個工具了", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1490, "start": 4212.833, "end": 4214.766, "text": "可能在 model routing 之前", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1491, "start": 4214.766, "end": 4216.5, "text": "它就是先自己做 routing", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1492, "start": 4216.5, "end": 4218.233, "text": "然後把它當作一個工具吧", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1493, "start": 4218.333, "end": 4219.8, "text": "我覺得比較可能的是這樣子", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1494, "start": 4220.966, "end": 4225.0, "text": "換言之呢，比如說 Astra 在工作的過程中", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1495, "start": 4225.0, "end": 4229.6, "text": "假設你叫 Astra 去做一個大量的 screening", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1496, "start": 4229.633, "end": 4232.633, "text": "大量地去看大量的 email 之類的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1497, "start": 4232.633, "end": 4235.133, "text": "它可能就會 call 一下 Jev", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1498, "start": 4235.133, "end": 4240.733, "text": "就等於說這個 Jev 融入了 AI agent 的 harness 當中的這種感覺", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1499, "start": 4240.733, "end": 4243.733, "text": "我覺得下一步蠻可能會發生這樣子的事情啦", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1500, "start": 4245.233, "end": 4248.3, "text": "反正無論如何，你可以想像的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1501, "start": 4248.333, "end": 4251.733, "text": "就是 model routing 一定是未來", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1502, "start": 4251.733, "end": 4256.866, "text": "而且未來不只是你在 LLM 跟 Jev", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1503, "start": 4256.866, "end": 4261.333, "text": "跟中等的 LLM 之間進行選擇", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1504, "start": 4261.366, "end": 4265.433, "text": "還會有地端的 LLM 跟雲端的 LLM 的選擇", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1505, "start": 4265.433, "end": 4267.133, "text": "會全部混在一起", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1506, "start": 4267.166, "end": 4268.733, "text": "我覺得未來就是這樣", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1507, "start": 4268.733, "end": 4273.8, "text": "對於我們這些科技宅來說，你想要的話", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1508, "start": 4273.833, "end": 4278.4, "text": "你可以隨時把這些最新的 capability 融入到你的工作當中", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1509, "start": 4278.4, "end": 4280.5, "text": "但是對於一般人來說", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1510, "start": 4280.5, "end": 4284.5, "text": "我相信他們整個過程中他們都不會感覺到", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1511, "start": 4284.533, "end": 4286.533, "text": "他們，像是 Jev 問世", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1512, "start": 4286.566, "end": 4289.833, "text": "他們不會看到 Jev，也不會用到 Jev", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1513, "start": 4289.833, "end": 4294.5, "text": "但是 Jev 會實質上慢慢地改變他們的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1514, "start": 4294.5, "end": 4297.566, "text": "AI agent 的速度跟成本", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1515, "start": 4297.6, "end": 4300.466, "text": "這些是他們會慢慢體感到的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1516, "start": 4300.466, "end": 4303.3, "text": "他們不會知道過程中發生了什麼事情", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1517, "start": 4303.333, "end": 4308.7, "text": "只有我們這些真的科技宅們才真的是知道這些內幕啊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1518, "start": 4308.866, "end": 4309.0, "text": "OK", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1519, "start": 4309.666, "end": 4312.066, "text": "好，那麼這集科技浪就大概跟大家聊到這邊", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1520, "start": 4312.466, "end": 4315.8, "text": "如果你覺得本集節目對於你了解", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1521, "start": 4315.833, "end": 4318.266, "text": "Jev 來說是有點幫助的", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1522, "start": 4318.266, "end": 4321.3, "text": "你覺得節目是有趣好聽的話呢", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1523, "start": 4321.333, "end": 4323.466, "text": "歡迎給我們一個五星評分、留言", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1524, "start": 4323.466, "end": 4326.933, "text": "然後把科技浪分享給你的親朋好友們", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false }, { "id": 1525, "start": 4326.966, "end": 4328.866, "text": "我們就下週再見囉，拜拜！", "source": "source_caption", "timing_uncertain": false } ] }