1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,000
不斷地跟國對比,我們感覺真的是中國和日本差的太大了。

2
00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:09,000
我們有時候也會不理解說日本為什麼會是這樣。

3
00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:14,000
你發現沒有,中國這些年日本史的書翻譯的很多。

4
00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:21,000
為什麼討論大政民主?為什麼會走向戰爭?你想他是在討論日本嗎?

5
00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,000
其實他是中國問題意識在起作用。

6
00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,560
但是我们过去太多的强调

7
00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:29,560
中国和日本同文同种

8
00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:30,580
一一带水

9
00:00:30,580 --> 00:00:34,040
其实我觉得现在更应该强调的是

10
00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:35,660
中国和日本

11
00:00:35,660 --> 00:00:38,940
它有什么样的结构性差异

12
00:00:38,940 --> 00:00:41,860
而且导致了后来的路径不同

13
00:00:41,860 --> 00:00:43,800
对您来说

14
00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:45,620
这种最结构性的差异是什么

15
00:00:45,620 --> 00:00:48,560
我们从政治文化角度讲

16
00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:50,360
我们一直在讨论说

17
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中国古代政权的合法性

18
00:00:53,060 --> 00:00:55,600
是所谓神兽王权

19
00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:57,580
这一方面日本有的

20
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除了极少极少的

21
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比如说足利易满这个时代以外

22
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日本从来不是中国的朝共圈

23
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没有这个供奉关系

24
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他文化上虽然接受也很多

25
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但是他一直有一种疏离的意识

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尤其是在13世纪

27
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蒙古希莱刺激了他所谓神国的观念

28
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蒙古连汉族中国都灭掉了

29
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还灭不掉我

30
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但是有一个东西日本没有

31
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中国认为呢

32
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合法性要以德配之

33
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要有德

34
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没有德

35
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我推翻你

36
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所以中国是承认汤武革命的

37
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所以中国就不断的朝代变更

38
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而是凡是朝代变更

39
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就包装自己说

40
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我是有德

41
00:01:45,740 --> 00:01:47,700
我才得到你这个位置

42
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日本没有的

43
00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,060
天皇永远是天皇

44
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只要有点学统治性

45
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万事一系

46
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好

47
00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,000
这里面又带来第二个问题

48
00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,500
日本天皇没有绝对的权利

49
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对于国家的控制

50
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不是严丝合缝

51
00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:03,260
滴水不漏的

52
00:02:03,260 --> 00:02:05,540
日本不可能推行

53
00:02:05,540 --> 00:02:07,200
像中国那样的俊县制

54
00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,200
反而日本是封建制

55
00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:10,940
中国书同文

56
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行同轮

57
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车同轨

58
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都得一模一样

59
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好

60
00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:17,080
这个带来一个什么问题

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要颠覆

62
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整体的颠覆

63
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总是革命

64
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不断革命

65
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再往下想

66
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第三个差别就来了

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咱们中国是文化从上到下

68
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政治管理组织从上到下

69
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长沙走马楼五简

70
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你就看到最底下最底下的户

71
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劳动力人口

72
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他都登记的

73
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收你的税

74
00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,820
像我过去在贵州的苗族地区

75
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过去是土司馆的

76
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就跟封建大名馆的一样

77
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改土归流

78
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成为编户其名

79
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再加上中国儒家教育非常发达

80
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所以一直渗透到底下

81
00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,240
可是日本底下都大名管着

82
00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,480
老百姓根本就不听你的

83
00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:01,520
所以日本能保留文化

84
00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:03,540
它的很多文化的象征物

85
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都是从很早很早保留下来

86
00:03:06,300 --> 00:03:08,020
不像我们破丝就破掉了

87
00:03:08,020 --> 00:03:10,600
这就变成了一个中国的传统

88
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和日本的传统的不一样

89
00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,460
再接下来还有一个问题

90
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宗教

91
00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,940
日本思想史的主轴

92
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是王权对神佛

93
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是两极

94
00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:25,500
中国不是的

95
00:03:25,500 --> 00:03:28,080
中国王权和神佛是垂直关系

96
00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,460
中国历史上有僧总统

97
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道总统

98
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或者叫僧统道统

99
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政府任命的和尚道士来管

100
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这个是咱们中国传统

101
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一直到现在

102
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你看我认识一些和尚

103
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拿名片出来

104
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处级

105
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正处级和尚

106
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你日本的僧人神职人员

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你去看

108
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他不归政府

109
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过去比瑞山的严历寺

110
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是有兵的

111
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有军队的

112
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我们除了历史上传说的

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少林十八棍僧之外

114
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哪里看到四和尚庙里面有军队

115
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连刀枪都不敢藏一个

116
00:04:07,740 --> 00:04:11,020
而且日本人对宗教信仰的虔诚

117
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跟中国什么

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中国宗教因为没有神圣权利

119
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没有绝对性

120
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所以信仰者也不那么虔诚

121
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鲁迅讲的最好了说

122
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中国的佛教信仰

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道教信仰就等于是买股票

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是希望将来的股票升值赚大钱的

125
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所以宗教不一样

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日本过去有一个非常非常有名的学者

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叫做黑田俊雄

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他其实也是讲的王权神佛

129
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他认为日本思想史

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就围绕着这两极的摆动

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影响到各种文化

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我觉得这个总结应该是比较可靠的

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你搞哲学的

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搞文学的

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为了提倡人类之爱

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你应该讲这个文化和那个文化很像

137
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和大家都有共同性

138
00:05:00,740 --> 00:05:02,960
但是作为研究历史的人

139
00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:05,620
可能更多的是讲它不一样

140
00:05:05,620 --> 00:05:08,540
如果你太多的强调一样

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00:05:08,540 --> 00:05:11,440
你没法解释中国和日本

142
00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,020
为什么在后来现代化的道路

143
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最后的结果是不一样的

144
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所以日本呢

145
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它跟中国的差异

146
00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,720
其实并不来自于思想的差异

147
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而是来自它背后语境

148
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也就是政治和社会的差异性

149
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决定了它思想的不同

150
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所以我们一直就讲

151
00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,880
思想史并不完全是只是单纯的

152
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就思想探思想

153
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它实际上是背后的政治和社会

154
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影响特别大

155
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嗯

156
00:06:12,740 --> 00:06:17,820
我在街上装样子装的可以吧

157
00:06:17,820 --> 00:06:21,840
你这个对贵阳感觉怎么样

158
00:06:21,840 --> 00:06:23,360
我很喜欢贵阳

159
00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:25,600
而且我喜欢看他们冬天动不动

160
00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:26,780
路边上一堆人在烤火

161
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我说这别的城市都没有

162
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没有没有

163
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而且还是挺有野性的

164
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对

165
00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,320
昨天晚上回来的时候拍照片的女孩

166
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我想她以前是贵州日报的

167
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1967年4月的一张报纸

168
00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:42,840
上面有我写的一首诗

169
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真的 初几 初三

170
00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:48,800
你发表的词明不是很轰动吗

171
00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,160
有点轰动 因为我后来在台里

172
00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,400
17岁的时候当了第一把手编剧

173
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整个前东南文明团演出一个大型歌舞剧

174
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当了一把编剧

175
00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:04,640
那时候我高光时刻

176
00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:08,760
第一个高光时刻

177
00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:10,760
那时候的名声什么感觉

178
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到处都有饭吃

179
00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:13,760
所以是很实惠的

180
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小心

181
00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:19,760
我们在这儿吃

182
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好 挺好的

183
00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:23,760
他们吃过了

184
00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:25,760
哥老师 你想吃哪个

185
00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:27,760
青片牛肉

186
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好

187
00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:30,760
要一个青片牛肉粉

188
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加肉吗

189
00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:33,760
不要加肉

190
00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:34,760
鸡蛋吗

191
00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:36,760
我那个红烧牛肉粉加个鸡蛋

192
00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:38,760
来 哥老师

193
00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:40,760
好 谢谢

194
00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:44,760
您反而不是很能吃辣的是吧

195
00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,760
现在眼睛做手术不行

196
00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,760
当之前的时候到饭店把这辣椒吃

197
00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,760
我们那时候啊

198
00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:56,760
堵

199
00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:58,760
还堵吗

200
00:07:58,760 --> 00:07:59,760
堵什么呢

201
00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:09,000
沒有。上面全是油的,一分之出來。結果我55秒就出完了。

202
00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:13,000
就白吃了一罐。我們那時候笑話百出,為什麼呢?

203
00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,000
大田的时候一年你才吃到一两回猪肉

204
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就是饥饿

205
00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:18,920
不赖你

206
00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:20,860
我太太就特别烦我

207
00:08:20,860 --> 00:08:23,060
总是好像说要吃饭

208
00:08:23,060 --> 00:08:24,440
而且那好像非得要吃

209
00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:24,980
有肉

210
00:08:24,980 --> 00:08:29,040
我加一份牛肉

211
00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:30,580
行啊你

212
00:08:30,580 --> 00:08:33,340
我加一份牛肉好吧

213
00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,520
误道员

214
00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:47,600
你要误道是吗

215
00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:48,040
误道

216
00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,240
那你玩呗

217
00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:52,860
您最早接触到王阳明什么时候

218
00:08:52,860 --> 00:08:54,160
在知青的时候

219
00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:56,600
不就有一本《明如玄》

220
00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:58,520
就在那看的吗

221
00:08:58,520 --> 00:08:59,900
其实我们想

222
00:08:59,900 --> 00:09:02,220
王阳明到农场这个地方的时候

223
00:09:02,220 --> 00:09:04,520
心情肯定特别糟糕

224
00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:05,800
被流放到这儿了

225
00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,260
就是说郑德皇帝一上台

226
00:09:08,260 --> 00:09:11,040
第一个脱了裤子打屁股的

227
00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:12,100
就是王阳明

228
00:09:12,100 --> 00:09:13,800
就这么大的羞辱

229
00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:14,160
对

230
00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,260
以前因为朱元璋当然也停仗

231
00:09:17,260 --> 00:09:20,600
但是没有说去小衣的

232
00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:21,440
还有内裤

233
00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,300
还穿着里面的裤子

234
00:09:24,300 --> 00:09:27,420
当时王阳明是怎么得对他的

235
00:09:27,420 --> 00:09:29,840
王阳明是写一个什么东西

236
00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:31,180
救一个什么人

237
00:09:31,180 --> 00:09:33,600
结果就得对了皇帝

238
00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:35,780
你说这有多大个事

239
00:09:35,780 --> 00:09:38,980
结果搞了第一个脱衣停仗的人

240
00:09:38,980 --> 00:09:40,000
居然是王阳明

241
00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:43,800
所以他就跑到这边来了

242
00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,440
看看这个

243
00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:52,000
这太大了

244
00:09:52,000 --> 00:10:00,580
您怎么解释为什么好像这些年王阳明突然变得这么热起来

245
00:10:00,580 --> 00:10:02,820
做商业的什么各行业的人

246
00:10:02,820 --> 00:10:07,280
就是说过去对王阳明最强调的就是说他心极理

247
00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:08,760
心外无理

248
00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:11,080
五星就是宇宙

249
00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:12,980
完全是从那个行而上

250
00:10:12,980 --> 00:10:14,700
那这几年呢

251
00:10:14,700 --> 00:10:16,040
有一个很大的变化

252
00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:17,760
就说王阳明

253
00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,980
是代表了儒家传统的一个

254
00:10:20,980 --> 00:10:23,100
非常重要的转折

255
00:10:23,100 --> 00:10:24,400
宋代以前

256
00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:26,260
基本上知识分子是认为说

257
00:10:26,260 --> 00:10:28,000
要得军行道

258
00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,380
然后我们把我们的理想实现出来

259
00:10:30,380 --> 00:10:32,440
可是到了王阳明

260
00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:34,060
就发现了一个根本的转变

261
00:10:34,060 --> 00:10:35,840
叫做绝民行道

262
00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,000
就是启发民众来

263
00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:39,640
实现我的理想

264
00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:40,720
为什么呢

265
00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:41,500
就是这个事

266
00:10:41,500 --> 00:10:42,900
皇帝打了屁股了

267
00:10:42,900 --> 00:10:45,200
对皇帝已经很失望了

268
00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:45,860
丢掉幻想

269
00:10:45,860 --> 00:10:46,620
丢掉幻想

270
00:10:46,620 --> 00:10:47,680
深入群众

271
00:10:47,680 --> 00:10:49,960
就是我后来有一段时间

272
00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:51,420
非常仔细的去看

273
00:10:51,420 --> 00:10:53,520
嘉靖六年到嘉靖七年

274
00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:55,860
他最后死前这两年

275
00:10:55,860 --> 00:10:57,060
心情仍然不好

276
00:10:57,060 --> 00:11:00,180
就说皇帝根本不相信我

277
00:11:00,180 --> 00:11:02,160
幸好王安民会教学生

278
00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,580
他一大帮好学生

279
00:11:04,580 --> 00:11:05,460
学生的学生

280
00:11:05,460 --> 00:11:07,780
后来最后当了大官了

281
00:11:07,780 --> 00:11:14,260
结果就万历皇帝的时候终于名正言顺的平反了

282
00:11:14,260 --> 00:11:17,260
而且进入孔庙祭祀

283
00:11:17,260 --> 00:11:18,660
这个厉害了

284
00:11:18,660 --> 00:11:20,820
所以王阳明活着的时候

285
00:11:20,820 --> 00:11:22,220
心情不怎么好

286
00:11:22,220 --> 00:11:24,860
你们看看那样子

287
00:11:24,860 --> 00:11:25,940
尤其在这段事情

288
00:11:25,940 --> 00:11:26,740
尤其不好

289
00:11:26,740 --> 00:11:29,740
这段时间心情是最不好的时候

290
00:11:29,740 --> 00:11:31,660
所以误导

291
00:11:33,540 --> 00:11:36,300
这个是特意放的烟雾吗

292
00:11:36,300 --> 00:11:37,700
咱们有这么好的待遇吗

293
00:11:37,700 --> 00:11:41,100
这修的还真是漂亮

294
00:11:41,100 --> 00:11:44,060
它是让您兴奋的思想人物吗

295
00:11:44,060 --> 00:11:46,340
应该不能特别算

296
00:11:46,340 --> 00:11:51,340
特别注意它主要是因为它的后续效果

297
00:11:51,340 --> 00:11:54,940
无意中它可能启发了很多别的东西

298
00:11:54,940 --> 00:11:58,740
你比如说我们现在讲世界主义

299
00:11:58,740 --> 00:12:01,740
那王阳明继承了陆九元

300
00:12:01,740 --> 00:12:05,060
他们讲东海西海 心同里同

301
00:12:05,060 --> 00:12:13,220
这个话后来成了中国接受外来文化的一个非常大的精神资源

302
00:12:13,220 --> 00:12:16,140
就是说你不能够把真理分成社会

303
00:12:16,140 --> 00:12:19,300
东海的真理西海的真理都应该是真理

304
00:12:19,300 --> 00:12:21,300
给了一种合法性

305
00:12:21,300 --> 00:12:22,400
一个巨大的合法性

306
00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,560
他进行了一次思想解放去

307
00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:28,020
他也是不那么想

308
00:12:28,020 --> 00:12:30,600
但是无意中造成

309
00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:31,360
人意中招

310
00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:35,100
咱们有好多这种歪打正着的这种东西

311
00:12:35,100 --> 00:12:35,640
你比如说

312
00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:38,840
我以前看晚清佛教的书

313
00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:43,400
晚清佛教的书帮助中国人理解两个道理

314
00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:47,120
一个是为什么植物会有光合作用

315
00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,680
诗经里面和佛教里面的书都说

316
00:12:50,680 --> 00:12:52,580
齐叶废废

317
00:12:52,580 --> 00:12:54,200
叶子就像废

318
00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:55,800
他就说对

319
00:12:55,800 --> 00:13:00,240
西洋人讲的光合作用叶绿素很对

320
00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:01,360
这是一个

321
00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:03,100
还有《华言经》里面讲

322
00:13:03,100 --> 00:13:05,100
风轮转地轮

323
00:13:05,100 --> 00:13:06,720
地轮转火轮

324
00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:07,860
不错

325
00:13:07,860 --> 00:13:10,260
果然是地球

326
00:13:10,260 --> 00:13:13,360
地球核心里面是有火

327
00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,980
外面是有大气胞的

328
00:13:15,980 --> 00:13:22,060
帮助接受现代地理学

329
00:13:22,060 --> 00:13:22,720
天文学

330
00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,040
但是这种附会

331
00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,100
是全世界都有这种思维方式

332
00:13:27,100 --> 00:13:29,180
因为它要从自己熟悉的出发

333
00:13:29,180 --> 00:13:30,340
问题是这样

334
00:13:30,340 --> 00:13:33,060
咱们中国是一个有整体主义

335
00:13:33,060 --> 00:13:34,940
接受外来知识的

336
00:13:34,940 --> 00:13:35,780
是吧

337
00:13:35,780 --> 00:13:37,380
它必须得想个道理出来

338
00:13:37,380 --> 00:13:39,620
你比如说我现在最统统的意思

339
00:13:39,620 --> 00:13:43,100
我现在特别想知道什么叫元宇宙

340
00:13:44,020 --> 00:13:48,940
你能不能给我一个风俗的说法

341
00:13:51,820 --> 00:13:52,580
这是杨明洞

342
00:13:52,580 --> 00:13:53,860
他在这误到了吗

343
00:13:54,620 --> 00:13:55,580
那咱们就误一下

344
00:13:56,180 --> 00:13:57,980
中国古代对洞

345
00:13:57,980 --> 00:14:01,300
都有一些特别的想象

346
00:14:01,300 --> 00:14:05,500
你看那个桃花园剧跟着流水进了一个洞

347
00:14:05,500 --> 00:14:09,380
然后出了那个洞就是另外一个不知未进的

348
00:14:09,380 --> 00:14:12,260
对 元宇宙就是桃花园

349
00:14:12,260 --> 00:14:14,100
元宇宙就是桃花园

350
00:14:14,100 --> 00:14:16,660
等于是给每个人一个桃花园的入口

351
00:14:20,820 --> 00:14:22,100
哇 真是

352
00:14:22,100 --> 00:14:23,980
就是这个地方

353
00:14:23,980 --> 00:14:24,980
奇境

354
00:14:24,980 --> 00:14:27,780
但是里面有多深

355
00:14:27,780 --> 00:14:28,580
还好

356
00:14:28,580 --> 00:14:29,820
没多深

357
00:14:29,820 --> 00:14:31,440
等于是在贵州

358
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:33,380
贵州卡斯特地貌里面

359
00:14:33,380 --> 00:14:33,980
雾出了

360
00:14:33,980 --> 00:14:34,600
对

361
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:36,620
真是别有冬天的

362
00:14:36,620 --> 00:14:38,600
通到元宇宙去了

363
00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:39,720
另外一个宇宙去了

364
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:45,720
通到游客止步

365
00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,320
你看此路不通

366
00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:50,500
说明这个洞大部分都是骗人的

367
00:14:50,500 --> 00:14:54,460
还并没有什么特别感觉

368
00:14:54,460 --> 00:14:56,020
有什么特别感觉吗

369
00:14:56,020 --> 00:15:01,020
我特别感觉就是他那时候可能在这生活还可以

370
00:15:05,020 --> 00:15:06,460
这个瓷糖也还可以

371
00:15:06,460 --> 00:15:08,540
张学良那待过

372
00:15:08,540 --> 00:15:10,700
有意思

373
00:15:10,700 --> 00:15:12,460
时间不长

374
00:15:13,460 --> 00:15:14,700
感慨

375
00:15:14,700 --> 00:15:17,180
又是一个被流芳者

376
00:15:19,180 --> 00:15:20,220
这俩人干嘛

377
00:15:20,220 --> 00:15:22,220
张学良 赵斯小姐

378
00:15:22,220 --> 00:15:22,940
估计是

379
00:15:24,460 --> 00:15:26,000
赵斯小姐

380
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:27,460
她被转进在这

381
00:15:27,460 --> 00:15:30,100
时间不长

382
00:15:30,100 --> 00:15:34,000
我听过一段网上流传的

383
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,240
张先生讲英文口音好重

384
00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:37,900
但是他能讲也不错

385
00:15:37,900 --> 00:15:38,980
他去欧洲旅行吗

386
00:15:38,980 --> 00:15:39,700
不是 他去西洋

387
00:15:39,700 --> 00:15:40,700
在欧洲旅行

388
00:15:40,700 --> 00:15:42,140
我们也去过欧洲旅行

389
00:15:42,140 --> 00:15:43,740
你要我讲 我也讲不见

390
00:15:43,740 --> 00:15:45,820
就讲不出多好

391
00:15:45,820 --> 00:15:54,960
培养元气

392
00:15:58,947 --> 00:16:04,947
在中國這種思想文化傳統裡面,流放佔你的位置,是不是王仁揚挺核心的?

393
00:16:04,947 --> 00:16:05,947
應該是。

394
00:16:05,947 --> 00:16:10,947
古代講九行,它流行是一個古代中國攀土重泉。

395
00:16:10,947 --> 00:16:14,267
对于流放的恐惧的传统是比较厉害

396
00:16:14,267 --> 00:16:15,867
大家都认为

397
00:16:15,867 --> 00:16:17,687
把他放逐到一个边缘的

398
00:16:17,687 --> 00:16:19,047
或者不太好的地方

399
00:16:19,047 --> 00:16:20,787
也是对他一种惩罚

400
00:16:20,787 --> 00:16:23,727
比如说王昌林放逐到夜郎

401
00:16:23,727 --> 00:16:25,407
就是现在咱们这地方

402
00:16:25,407 --> 00:16:27,227
我们这个地方

403
00:16:27,227 --> 00:16:29,107
是流放

404
00:16:29,107 --> 00:16:29,427
是啊

405
00:16:29,427 --> 00:16:32,347
这是流放者之乡

406
00:16:32,347 --> 00:16:33,767
王耀明就

407
00:16:33,767 --> 00:16:34,527
对也是流放

408
00:16:34,527 --> 00:16:38,447
但是流放再造了他

409
00:16:38,447 --> 00:16:40,607
你说是那么说

410
00:16:40,607 --> 00:16:42,907
我们很多搞历史的人

411
00:16:42,907 --> 00:16:44,447
最容易犯这个错误

412
00:16:44,447 --> 00:16:46,367
总是后见之明

413
00:16:46,367 --> 00:16:50,267
我觉得是事后追忆的结果

414
00:16:50,267 --> 00:16:53,667
比如王阳明没有凭江西藤豪之乱

415
00:16:53,667 --> 00:16:56,687
和广西大藤霞成为大人物

416
00:16:56,687 --> 00:16:59,027
他是不是能够后来说

417
00:16:59,027 --> 00:17:00,547
悟道的这个地方

418
00:17:00,547 --> 00:17:02,067
是他一生的转折

419
00:17:02,067 --> 00:17:05,587
造就了王阳明的思想学术

420
00:17:05,587 --> 00:17:08,627
我们现在有很多是道着说的

421
00:17:08,627 --> 00:17:11,307
我如果那时候没考上大学

422
00:17:11,307 --> 00:17:13,547
在供销社里面干着

423
00:17:13,547 --> 00:17:15,127
后来当个小科长

424
00:17:15,127 --> 00:17:16,487
也还要说生活也不错

425
00:17:16,487 --> 00:17:19,627
可是大田那三年对我什么作用

426
00:17:19,627 --> 00:17:21,227
没什么作用

427
00:17:21,227 --> 00:17:22,387
包括咱们坐在这

428
00:17:22,387 --> 00:17:23,387
我还是想问您

429
00:17:23,387 --> 00:17:26,147
比如说对于一个中国思想史上的一个门外汉

430
00:17:26,147 --> 00:17:27,147
听到这种词

431
00:17:27,147 --> 00:17:28,007
什么心与理

432
00:17:28,007 --> 00:17:29,367
知情合一

433
00:17:29,367 --> 00:17:31,787
就是怎么把它放到历史框架中理解

434
00:17:31,787 --> 00:17:34,387
比如后来人这么多的人会感兴趣

435
00:17:34,387 --> 00:17:35,487
带着这么大的轰动

436
00:17:35,487 --> 00:17:38,407
很多所谓的原来本来简单的道理

437
00:17:38,407 --> 00:17:39,607
没有那么玄乎

438
00:17:39,607 --> 00:17:43,467
后来的人都要把它讲得越来越深刻

439
00:17:43,467 --> 00:17:45,867
原来孔子没那么玄乎

440
00:17:45,867 --> 00:17:48,647
结果你们就把孔子解释成了

441
00:17:48,647 --> 00:17:51,727
好像思想深刻的包容现代性的

442
00:17:51,727 --> 00:17:52,967
那还得了

443
00:17:52,967 --> 00:17:56,047
就是加上了很多自己的体会

444
00:17:56,047 --> 00:17:58,847
甚至有时候那种体会是不对的

445
00:17:58,847 --> 00:18:00,087
完全离奇的

446
00:18:00,087 --> 00:18:02,867
最典型的一个例子

447
00:18:02,867 --> 00:18:03,407
朱熹

448
00:18:03,407 --> 00:18:07,287
朱熹接到宋孝宗的命令让他出山

449
00:18:07,287 --> 00:18:09,327
非常兴奋就写了一首诗

450
00:18:09,327 --> 00:18:11,247
埋头书册无了日

451
00:18:11,247 --> 00:18:13,527
不如抛雀去寻春

452
00:18:13,527 --> 00:18:16,347
其实朱熹和陆九元是好朋友

453
00:18:16,347 --> 00:18:18,267
就是陆九元跟他讲

454
00:18:18,267 --> 00:18:18,947
这下好了

455
00:18:18,947 --> 00:18:21,587
你总算见到皇帝了

456
00:18:21,587 --> 00:18:23,507
可以直接把你的意见

457
00:18:23,507 --> 00:18:24,927
告诉皇帝了

458
00:18:24,927 --> 00:18:26,307
朱熹高兴了嘛

459
00:18:26,307 --> 00:18:28,307
埋头书册无了日

460
00:18:28,307 --> 00:18:29,507
不如抛雀去寻春

461
00:18:29,507 --> 00:18:30,507
我要出山了

462
00:18:30,507 --> 00:18:32,247
不就这意思吗

463
00:18:32,247 --> 00:18:34,147
可是被他们解释成

464
00:18:34,147 --> 00:18:36,287
朱熹受陆九元的影响

465
00:18:36,287 --> 00:18:37,807
他把客观维心主义

466
00:18:37,807 --> 00:18:40,347
逐渐转向主观维心主义了

467
00:18:40,347 --> 00:18:42,287
不去寻找知识

468
00:18:42,287 --> 00:18:43,487
寻求真理

469
00:18:43,487 --> 00:18:46,107
而是直接的去触摸世界

470
00:18:46,107 --> 00:18:47,607
就像胡塞尔说的

471
00:18:47,607 --> 00:18:50,067
我直接面对现象

472
00:18:50,067 --> 00:18:52,567
有那么悬浮吗

473
00:18:52,567 --> 00:18:54,887
我觉得现在的

474
00:18:54,887 --> 00:18:56,327
好多这种

475
00:18:56,327 --> 00:18:58,547
所谓理论家的

476
00:18:58,547 --> 00:19:00,607
他的毛病就是想太多了

477
00:19:00,607 --> 00:19:02,387
想的想的都不是人家的

478
00:19:02,387 --> 00:19:03,667
是你自己的了

479
00:19:03,667 --> 00:19:06,087
理论绕过来

480
00:19:06,087 --> 00:19:06,587
绕过去

481
00:19:06,587 --> 00:19:10,707
结果反而是跟事实根本之一的巴掌

482
00:19:10,707 --> 00:19:13,627
所以历史学家不能搞文学

483
00:19:13,627 --> 00:19:16,207
你要是说诗歌让我们这些人一剪

484
00:19:16,207 --> 00:19:17,307
又剪完了

485
00:19:17,307 --> 00:19:18,987
剪得一塌糊涂

486
00:19:18,987 --> 00:19:21,867
就有点像拿X光机看美人

487
00:19:21,867 --> 00:19:23,527
那点暧昧朦胧都没了

488
00:19:23,527 --> 00:19:26,727
这是搞历史的坏处

489
00:19:26,727 --> 00:19:28,267
可是我们过去

490
00:19:28,267 --> 00:19:30,427
因为很多做思想史的人

491
00:19:30,427 --> 00:19:32,467
是搞哲学的地方

492
00:19:32,467 --> 00:19:34,847
他们不爱讲历史

493
00:19:34,847 --> 00:19:38,467
或者说把历史语境跟思想剥离开

494
00:19:38,467 --> 00:19:39,127
对 脱开

495
00:19:39,127 --> 00:19:43,247
所以我们现在觉得他们做的很说服不了人

496
00:19:43,247 --> 00:19:47,627
但是他们又很恨我们这种做法

497
00:19:47,627 --> 00:19:52,767
就是说你们这种做法等于是把思想降低了

498
00:19:52,767 --> 00:19:53,847
把思想庸俗化

499
00:19:53,847 --> 00:19:54,527
还会觉得是吧

500
00:19:54,527 --> 00:19:56,087
都是跟现实利益

501
00:19:56,087 --> 00:19:57,947
跟什么生活处境

502
00:19:57,947 --> 00:20:01,387
跟他甚至吃喝玩乐都连在一起了

503
00:20:01,387 --> 00:20:04,127
所以我在思想史里面

504
00:20:04,127 --> 00:20:05,967
包括讲先情两汉

505
00:20:05,967 --> 00:20:09,167
我写得好像很多人批判我说

506
00:20:09,167 --> 00:20:10,847
写得很简单

507
00:20:10,847 --> 00:20:11,527
那么简单

508
00:20:11,527 --> 00:20:13,667
天哪

509
00:20:13,667 --> 00:20:16,207
那深刻的都是你加上去的

510
00:20:16,207 --> 00:20:21,327
包括您写的时候

511
00:20:21,327 --> 00:20:25,987
怎么去想象他们的思想世界

512
00:20:25,987 --> 00:20:27,907
以及生活世界的关系

513
00:20:27,907 --> 00:20:29,167
实际上就是一句话

514
00:20:29,167 --> 00:20:29,567
就是说

515
00:20:29,567 --> 00:20:32,747
重建当时他的生活环境

516
00:20:32,747 --> 00:20:36,307
这个就给我们带来很多艰难的任务

517
00:20:36,307 --> 00:20:38,387
就是说你要看非常多

518
00:20:38,387 --> 00:20:41,407
你心里面至少要有那个感觉说

519
00:20:41,407 --> 00:20:43,347
那个时代不是跟现在不一样的

520
00:20:43,347 --> 00:20:45,247
然后那个时候他能够接触什么

521
00:20:45,247 --> 00:20:46,927
甚至包括他吃什么什么

522
00:20:46,927 --> 00:20:48,827
这都要考虑

523
00:20:48,827 --> 00:20:51,647
就是对他后来的思想的理解

524
00:20:51,647 --> 00:20:53,787
增加了一个语境

525
00:20:53,787 --> 00:20:55,487
对 但比如说

526
00:20:55,487 --> 00:20:58,427
开始动笔写这么这样的书的时候

527
00:20:58,427 --> 00:21:00,287
这是个浩瀚的工程

528
00:21:00,287 --> 00:21:02,167
这么长的一段历史

529
00:21:02,167 --> 00:21:04,467
哪个时期你写的时候特别兴奋

530
00:21:04,467 --> 00:21:05,847
那个时段特别灿烂

531
00:21:05,847 --> 00:21:06,367
有意思

532
00:21:06,367 --> 00:21:09,827
很难说

533
00:21:09,827 --> 00:21:12,467
因为比如说1895

534
00:21:12,467 --> 00:21:15,467
其实我们早就有个看法

535
00:21:15,467 --> 00:21:19,947
中国的近代史不应该开始于鸦片战争

536
00:21:19,947 --> 00:21:23,087
真正根基的撼动和整体向西转

537
00:21:23,087 --> 00:21:25,787
是1894 1895被日本打败

538
00:21:25,787 --> 00:21:29,707
才觉得是七尺大陆

539
00:21:29,707 --> 00:21:31,487
才开始有转变

540
00:21:31,487 --> 00:21:32,487
最巨大的羞辱

541
00:21:32,487 --> 00:21:33,487
最巨大的羞辱

542
00:21:33,487 --> 00:21:34,447
跟王阳明一样

543
00:21:34,447 --> 00:21:36,507
被人家脱了裤子打屁股

544
00:21:36,507 --> 00:21:38,507
他就要根本的去想问题

545
00:21:38,507 --> 00:21:40,767
说我再也不能依靠皇帝了

546
00:21:40,767 --> 00:21:42,047
又比如说

547
00:21:42,047 --> 00:21:44,307
我写那个盛世的评用

548
00:21:44,307 --> 00:21:45,687
我就很得意

549
00:21:45,687 --> 00:21:46,507
也很兴奋

550
00:21:46,507 --> 00:21:48,307
或者说觉得过去

551
00:21:48,307 --> 00:21:50,187
没有人这么讲

552
00:21:50,187 --> 00:21:51,287
填补一个

553
00:21:51,287 --> 00:21:52,667
好像是一个空白

554
00:21:52,667 --> 00:21:54,507
我们看所有的

555
00:21:54,507 --> 00:21:55,627
中国哲学史

556
00:21:55,627 --> 00:21:56,467
中国思想史

557
00:21:56,467 --> 00:21:57,727
唐初到盛唐

558
00:21:57,727 --> 00:22:00,487
618年到755年

559
00:22:00,487 --> 00:22:01,227
都空了

560
00:22:01,227 --> 00:22:03,907
为了填补这一块

561
00:22:03,907 --> 00:22:06,367
有些人拼命发掘唯物主义

562
00:22:06,367 --> 00:22:08,727
但是都不像样子

563
00:22:08,727 --> 00:22:11,847
我就想到了一个说法

564
00:22:11,847 --> 00:22:14,067
就是说盛世是平庸的

565
00:22:14,067 --> 00:22:17,287
因为财学都用在写诗歌上

566
00:22:17,287 --> 00:22:19,027
没有那个吃过苦

567
00:22:19,027 --> 00:22:19,967
没有流放过

568
00:22:19,967 --> 00:22:21,487
没有产生危机感

569
00:22:21,487 --> 00:22:22,987
没有一个思想深刻的

570
00:22:22,987 --> 00:22:25,347
所以我还特意在前面

571
00:22:25,347 --> 00:22:26,447
写方法论的时候

572
00:22:26,447 --> 00:22:28,187
写了一段叫做

573
00:22:28,187 --> 00:22:29,867
无画处也是画

574
00:22:29,867 --> 00:22:33,947
我们能不能写一个没有思想的思想史

575
00:22:33,947 --> 00:22:37,787
所谓没有思想是指的没有精英的思想

576
00:22:37,787 --> 00:22:40,047
或者说没有特别天才的

577
00:22:40,047 --> 00:22:42,087
其实你看我们关注民众

578
00:22:42,087 --> 00:22:45,287
你说昨天我们到大田

579
00:22:45,287 --> 00:22:47,427
你像老海他们这样的人

580
00:22:47,427 --> 00:22:50,187
他代表了相当大成人大的人

581
00:22:50,187 --> 00:22:52,187
你比如说他对他的药

582
00:22:52,187 --> 00:22:55,207
今天早上我还给他看那个药

583
00:22:55,207 --> 00:22:56,947
后来叫人去买了

584
00:22:56,947 --> 00:22:58,367
他有多少思想

585
00:22:58,367 --> 00:23:02,267
但是他的焦虑反不反应这个时代

586
00:23:02,267 --> 00:23:03,927
反不反应这个时代

587
00:23:03,927 --> 00:23:05,407
一个普遍观念

588
00:23:05,407 --> 00:23:07,527
其实很多人

589
00:23:07,527 --> 00:23:08,747
就是做学问的人

590
00:23:08,747 --> 00:23:09,667
可能他就不关心

591
00:23:09,667 --> 00:23:11,967
可是你思想史如果缺了这一段

592
00:23:11,967 --> 00:23:13,447
那算什么呢

593
00:23:13,447 --> 00:23:15,627
这就是我们的问题

594
00:23:15,627 --> 00:23:18,887
我们其实当时写盛世的评优的时候

595
00:23:18,887 --> 00:23:21,247
其实脑子里面想的就是这个

596
00:23:21,247 --> 00:23:23,487
现实的有呼应的

597
00:23:23,487 --> 00:23:23,567
对

598
00:23:23,567 --> 00:23:27,627
所以最后我的思想史出来以后

599
00:23:27,627 --> 00:23:28,567
批评的也很多

600
00:23:28,567 --> 00:23:30,967
罵的最多的就是说

601
00:23:30,967 --> 00:23:35,887
你为什么要去写什么一般的思想知识和信仰

602
00:23:35,887 --> 00:23:37,187
一般哪有思想

603
00:23:37,187 --> 00:23:38,387
精英才有思想

604
00:23:38,387 --> 00:23:40,667
有些人他根本就没体会到

605
00:23:40,667 --> 00:23:43,787
他要是像我那么在大田待过就行了

606
00:23:43,787 --> 00:23:44,727
其实我当然看

607
00:23:44,727 --> 00:23:47,067
最喜欢看你写的一般的思想信仰那块

608
00:23:47,067 --> 00:23:47,667
我觉得有意思

609
00:23:47,667 --> 00:23:49,707
你如果是真的去接触过

610
00:23:49,707 --> 00:23:50,627
接过地气

611
00:23:50,627 --> 00:23:53,047
就跟他们的感觉就不一样

612
00:23:53,047 --> 00:23:55,447
另外就是说

613
00:23:55,447 --> 00:23:57,147
最早是我给学生讲课

614
00:23:57,147 --> 00:24:00,147
我一觉得他们学思想史语

615
00:24:00,147 --> 00:24:02,967
这好像都很差

616
00:24:02,967 --> 00:24:04,447
我心想那怎么行

617
00:24:04,447 --> 00:24:06,407
所以我就说我自己来讲

618
00:24:06,407 --> 00:24:08,427
结果就一边写一边讲

619
00:24:08,427 --> 00:24:10,587
而且我那个时候写思想史的时候

620
00:24:10,587 --> 00:24:15,667
其实心中一个很明显的搏斗的目标

621
00:24:15,667 --> 00:24:18,327
有一个假想敌的其实

622
00:24:18,327 --> 00:24:22,207
因为它笼罩性太强了

623
00:24:22,207 --> 00:24:25,067
可是你把它解放出来怎么办

624
00:24:25,067 --> 00:24:27,427
所有的大学生都在学的

625
00:24:27,427 --> 00:24:29,027
摄像是都是学的

626
00:24:29,027 --> 00:24:32,307
跟王阳明要从柱子里面解放是差不多的

627
00:24:32,307 --> 00:24:33,507
都一招

628
00:24:33,507 --> 00:24:37,987
王阳明最后也没解放成

629
00:24:37,987 --> 00:24:40,547
我们大概最后也要解放成

630
00:24:55,646 --> 00:24:56,366
就还是去了

631
00:24:56,366 --> 00:24:56,806
是吧

632
00:24:56,806 --> 00:24:57,366
还是对

633
00:24:57,366 --> 00:25:00,006
他下的地方叫大猫山

634
00:25:00,006 --> 00:25:03,046
就是以前老虎出没的地方

635
00:25:03,046 --> 00:25:06,046
第一次分到这个村子是什么感觉

636
00:25:06,046 --> 00:25:07,206
是怎么过来当时

637
00:25:08,046 --> 00:25:09,526
我们坐大卡车

638
00:25:09,526 --> 00:25:12,766
可是车只能开到大田

639
00:25:12,766 --> 00:25:18,566
后面的10里路到白纳的那帮人就得走路

640
00:25:18,566 --> 00:25:20,166
因为我是坏分子

641
00:25:20,166 --> 00:25:21,606
反革命分子

642
00:25:21,606 --> 00:25:23,686
而是国家的大田要人监管

643
00:25:23,686 --> 00:25:24,446
要看着

644
00:25:24,446 --> 00:25:25,126
对

645
00:25:25,646 --> 00:25:27,326
你当时带什么行灵机的吧

646
00:25:27,326 --> 00:25:28,526
很简单嘛

647
00:25:28,526 --> 00:25:31,446
被子 褥子 一把锄头

648
00:25:31,446 --> 00:25:34,166
这么大一口 铁拨

649
00:25:34,166 --> 00:25:35,526
这个就发的

650
00:25:35,526 --> 00:25:37,006
我们刚去的时候

651
00:25:37,006 --> 00:25:39,526
已经帮我们搭了一个棚子

652
00:25:39,526 --> 00:25:41,206
底下搞个灶

653
00:25:41,206 --> 00:25:42,446
就当天晚上

654
00:25:42,446 --> 00:25:45,766
叫我们自己到山上去捡点松树

655
00:25:45,766 --> 00:25:47,046
掉下那个毛

656
00:25:47,046 --> 00:25:48,926
就做饭

657
00:25:48,926 --> 00:25:52,046
哇 那天下雨

658
00:25:52,046 --> 00:25:53,966
觉得好凄惨

659
00:25:53,966 --> 00:25:55,326
因为我们那没电

660
00:25:55,326 --> 00:25:56,726
晚上特别黑

661
00:25:56,726 --> 00:25:59,926
那时候会觉得绝望吗

662
00:25:59,926 --> 00:26:02,366
人生可能就这样了

663
00:26:02,366 --> 00:26:03,646
还没有了 还好

664
00:26:03,646 --> 00:26:05,646
因为大家都想想

665
00:26:05,646 --> 00:26:10,326
大田村有多少人

666
00:26:10,326 --> 00:26:11,526
大概一百个人

667
00:26:11,526 --> 00:26:13,086
那你跟他们都很熟吧

668
00:26:13,086 --> 00:26:13,966
不熟

669
00:26:13,966 --> 00:26:18,666
主要的就是杨家这边的三家

670
00:26:18,666 --> 00:26:20,226
但是有些人他不会想

671
00:26:20,226 --> 00:26:23,126
他们怎么看见这些知青

672
00:26:23,126 --> 00:26:25,446
他们不喜欢我

673
00:26:25,446 --> 00:26:27,966
因为你来分他的粮食

674
00:26:27,966 --> 00:26:30,426
他就土地就那么多

675
00:26:30,426 --> 00:26:32,346
他要分一份口粮给你

676
00:26:32,346 --> 00:26:33,686
还有一个就是说

677
00:26:33,686 --> 00:26:35,046
觉得你们也不太像

678
00:26:35,046 --> 00:26:37,186
要接受我们的那一套子

679
00:26:37,186 --> 00:26:40,666
好像跟他们格格不入

680
00:26:40,666 --> 00:26:42,286
你们又不会干活

681
00:26:42,286 --> 00:26:44,766
肯定不喜欢我

682
00:26:44,766 --> 00:26:48,566
到了

683
00:26:48,566 --> 00:26:50,186
大田招呼站

684
00:26:50,186 --> 00:26:52,346
修了这么多的砖房

685
00:26:52,346 --> 00:26:53,346
是吗

686
00:26:57,346 --> 00:26:59,346
这是十年前都没有

687
00:27:00,346 --> 00:27:02,346
我找不着

688
00:27:07,346 --> 00:27:08,346
你怎么等我

689
00:27:09,346 --> 00:27:10,346
我说一样的话

690
00:27:11,346 --> 00:27:12,346
你像什么

691
00:27:13,346 --> 00:27:14,346
我说一样场面

692
00:27:14,346 --> 00:27:15,346
你像什么

693
00:27:18,346 --> 00:27:21,346
我听见你来 我都要等

694
00:27:21,346 --> 00:27:22,746
哦,是吗?老海呢?

695
00:27:22,746 --> 00:27:23,646
老海在家

696
00:27:23,646 --> 00:27:24,646
老海在家

697
00:27:24,646 --> 00:27:25,946
好

698
00:27:25,946 --> 00:27:27,946
我先去看看老海

699
00:27:27,946 --> 00:27:29,546
那是在家

700
00:27:30,646 --> 00:27:31,946
老海

701
00:27:33,146 --> 00:27:34,446
哎呀

702
00:27:37,846 --> 00:27:39,146
你们先去

703
00:27:42,046 --> 00:27:43,346
那是你干嘛

704
00:27:47,646 --> 00:27:49,146
四年未结啊

705
00:27:49,146 --> 00:27:50,346
四年未结

706
00:27:51,346 --> 00:28:01,346
我和他在一起,住在他家的骨仓上面

707
00:28:01,346 --> 00:28:05,346
老汉,我们照一下

708
00:28:05,346 --> 00:28:07,346
你先照一下

709
00:28:07,346 --> 00:28:13,346
我戴帽子,我都会变

710
00:28:13,346 --> 00:28:19,346
你怎么变下来啊?

711
00:28:19,346 --> 00:28:24,146
房子宽 房子宽 房子宽 房子宽

712
00:28:24,146 --> 00:28:29,146
不行啊 房子宽 房子宽 很穷

713
00:28:30,146 --> 00:28:32,146
比以前好

714
00:28:33,946 --> 00:28:36,346
那时候他住在哪里 当时哥老子住在哪里

715
00:28:36,346 --> 00:28:39,146
我住在他们那个鼓汤上面

716
00:28:39,146 --> 00:28:42,346
现在没地儿

717
00:28:42,346 --> 00:28:44,346
把外面摇一下

718
00:28:44,346 --> 00:28:46,346
还有 没地儿

719
00:28:46,346 --> 00:28:48,346
我去找找

720
00:28:48,346 --> 00:28:49,346
我去看

721
00:28:49,346 --> 00:28:51,346
我去看

722
00:28:57,346 --> 00:28:59,346
蛇就会跑来跑去的

723
00:28:59,346 --> 00:29:00,346
他家没有

724
00:29:00,346 --> 00:29:02,346
我们房子那是那边

725
00:29:02,346 --> 00:29:04,346
有一天晚上吓死我了

726
00:29:04,346 --> 00:29:06,346
两条蛇跑出来

727
00:29:06,346 --> 00:29:10,346
跑到我床底下

728
00:29:16,346 --> 00:29:18,346
这个就是他们家的房子

729
00:29:18,346 --> 00:29:21,346
都婆了

730
00:29:25,346 --> 00:29:30,346
以前她的奶奶去世的时候

731
00:29:30,346 --> 00:29:34,346
还把人摆在这个地方睡在旁边

732
00:29:35,346 --> 00:29:40,346
我离开50年 真正50年

733
00:29:40,346 --> 00:29:43,346
我那时候还在那打瓦

734
00:29:43,346 --> 00:29:45,026
我跟那个战局嘛

735
00:29:45,026 --> 00:29:46,346
局我们两个打完嘛

736
00:29:46,346 --> 00:29:47,626
我也是打了

737
00:29:47,626 --> 00:29:49,826
开始了路上我做完

738
00:29:49,826 --> 00:29:50,537
做完这样