{
  "text": "我們要帶你們來看到這個是聯發科\n現在我們看到了這個業界\n產業界大家對它的一個前景有志一同\n到底呢 聯發科最近在做什麼\n趕快有請這個國政哥帶我們來看看囉\n聯發科告訴大家說\n這個客製化的晶片\n這個市占率目標上修到20%\n他選擇了一條跟博通不一樣的路\n到底為什麼\n對 我們來看聯發科\n我們來看聯發科這一次說的\n進來一點 進來一點\n我們來\n我們來看聯發科這次說法\n說說了什麼\n他把ESC的晶片\n本來他預估的目標是10到15%\n他突然說上修到15到20%\n當然上限就是20%\n他為什麼對ESC這麼的有信心\n而且未來占比會很高\n他其實走了一條跟博通\n完全不同的道路\n他告訴別人是\n他把這個目標修正之後\n他同時去做一件事情\n是聯發科會做系統級的設計\n他不只要做晶片\n包括他要替Google\n去做所謂的基板的設計\n等于我帮Google可能往下去做到\n所谓的窄版这块的设计\n以及基板的设计\n甚至我接下来要替Meta\n他们去做伺服器的机柜\n这很不一样\n它不是一家单纯的IC设计公司\n它已经变成是\n我要整体帮你设计到\n整个AI伺服器的生意了\n所以包括Google的运算基板L6\n未来它除了替它做TPU之外\n它也帮它做所谓的\n整个基板的设计\n再來馬斯克的伺服器的機櫃\n雖然馬斯克現在在稱讚說\n灰島的晶片很好\n但是馬斯克的伺服器機櫃\n是要給聯發科跟他一起合作的\n所以市場現在看好是\n他未來的訂單會越好\n所以他把他X個上修\n因為他提供的是系統級的服務\n可是我們回來講\n那美國現在的所謂X可龍頭\n其實是博通\n博通做的是\n反而他說什麼\n我不要提供供應所謂的\n整合系統服務\n我要回歸只做\n晶片业务\n那这两个其实产生了一个\n很悬殊的道路\n那当然先来讲博通\n博通就去想一件事情是\n我去做这些系统\n其实我会拉低我的毛利\n我好好的专心\n做好我的纯晶片服务的话\n我的毛利可以锁定在65%\n所以大家会觉得说\n那我这样还是很赚钱\n所以我投资价值不会被减下来\n可是对联发科来讲\n如果我去做基板的话\n那我可能相对的毛利\n或机柜设计\n我相对的毛利就会比较低\n那大家怎么去看联发科呢\n就可能会产生不一样的\n可是这两条路选择\n我们再看联发科到底在想什么\n当然我们这里还必须回应一件事情是\n这些新买家以及旧买家\n他们过去都有体验一件事情是\n他们缴了很多东西\n你知道叫做辉达税跟博通税\n也就是说我本来在跟你买晶片的时候\n像Google在买晶片的时候\n我还必须跟博通跟辉达\n绑定相关系统的产品\n所以以至于\n他付了相对比较多的钱\n这采购硬体\n那这个对于他们讲\n叫做博通税 挥达税\n在Google这些云章业者\n都体验到了\n那联发科就想到\n那我要解决这个问题\nGoogle他们就解决的问题就是\n那有人是不是能够帮我\n把基板的采购跟伺服器的采购\n好好的搞明白 说清楚\n所以对于来讲\n联发科就可以把所谓的\n系统效能极大化\n以及客户的需求\n给提高到极致\n所以对于Google\n这些买家来讲\n我总算有人来\n好好的帮我搞清楚\n硬体这一端的事情\n跟整个机柜的事情\n好 那对于联发科来讲\n这问题好处是什么\n那我可以学会一件事情是\n我会学会挥打的模式\n什么叫挥打模式是\n我不只挥打\n只会做晶片\n我还会做所谓的NB系统的设计\n那我就会懂得是\n整个系统是怎么设计出来的\n他就会树立他的差异化\n虽然他会牺牲毛利\n但是差异化就会出来了\n整个研发科他会变成什么\n他会不像博通\n而是他会越来越像挥达\n就是往挥达那条路去走\n那有可能他会牺牲毛利\n那是他可以提高市占\n那这里回来\n为什么他可以提高市占的问题\n联花科为什么敢说是\n未来市场越来越大\n除了刚才我们讲的\n所谓的Google这些人\nMeta这些人\n或者是马斯克特斯拉\n他们因为所谓的系统机柜\n付了都付很多钱\n所以需要有人来帮他设计\n晶片加整套服务之外\n其实还有很多新的买家\n正在崛起\n包括OpenAI跟Enthopi\n像Enthopi最近也宣布说\n他也要跨入所谓的\n内系设计\n他也要自己做晶片\n那这里必须要解释一件事情\n要设计晶片\n没有那么容易\n现在进入了所谓的7nm之后\n要能够设计晶片\n其实全球500大\n放眼全球500大\n每几家公司\n愿有那么大的资源\n去真的设计出晶片\n所以还是交给专业的\n当然你可以有核心团队\n但是后面的怎么导入\n所谓的台积电的制程\nIntel的制程\n三星的制程\n还是需要有人协助\n所以相对的\n就叫ASC的服务\n所以新的客户会越来越多\n甚至算力提供业者\n也想要跨入这个市场\n可是对于联发科来讲\n大家也不用说期待这块会很大\n因为这个业务是相对会比较长\n所以真正的系统的业务\n其实要到两年后\n所以短暂你要看到说\n马上的数字也不可能\n不太可能\n所以相对的ESC这个顺利量产\n其实才是联发科真正\n我们要关心他能够\n把这接晶片提供出来\n所以真正的成长\n还会是在ESC这一块\n那所以这个应该是一条正确的路\n对于联发科来讲\n还有台湾的供应链\n因为为什么博通不去选择这条路\n跟台湾基于两个地方不太一样\n台湾的优势是\n相关的系统业者都在台湾\n所以联发科才有办法做这件事情\n博通没那么简单\n它的优势比较明显\n优势会比较明显\n当然博通也有\n当然博通必须\n它想要的是坚守这个利润\n可是联发科相对的\n在整个供应链都在台湾的时候\n相對它的優勢就會比較明顯\n好 非常謝謝國登哥\n但我們看到\n這是聯發科做出了一條\n跟博通不一樣的選擇\n那當然我們有我們的一個利基點\n那聯發科這條路\n會不會走得很順暢呢\n就讓我們持續來觀察它\n我們要帶大家來看看了\n這個最近的一個大消息\n就是台積電最近\n有一點壓力\n是因為大家發現\n英特爾開始往前追了\n我們來看到說他威脅台積電\n當然了 打一個大問號了\n但是人家的良率在提升\n这也是不争的事实\n好我们来看先进封装当中\n英特尔的良率据说\n拉到了将近九成\n好那它拉到九成\n还有一个就是\n他们说台积电非常罕见的\n要跟着英特尔的屁股后面\n也要做他们的同样的技术\n要开发类EMIB的一个专案\n是拉着紧硕一起\n这又代表什么意思\n是英特尔做对了\n所以台積電要學嗎\n那英特爾現在良率拉升了\n真的會威脅到台積電嗎\n請教一下石聰哥\n對 我覺得這個EMIB\n這個短時間之內\n不會對台積電造成威脅\n但是長遠的來看\n的確是有可能\n所以為什麼台積電\n它也要發展類似這樣的一個產品\n那我先跟它講\n主要原因是因為最近傳出來說\n英特爾的EMIB-T的良率\n已經來到90%\n那90%來說\n其實跟台積電的CoOS的封裝\n是差不多的\n所以如果真的假設是這樣子的話\n我先說是假設是這個樣子的話\n那的確會對台積電造成很大的壓力\n為什麼這樣講\n我先跟大家稍微解釋一下\n什麼叫做CoA\n什麼叫EMIB\n那我們知道事實上現在\n我們不是在一個晶片上面有\n包括說像CPU GPU\nHBM等等嗎\n然後把它完全的組裝在一起嗎\n你要封裝到下面的\n這個PCB上面的時候\n你要用一個中介層\n中介層下面是基板\n就是ABF基板\n但是你ABF跟這個晶片中間\n還有一個叫做這個COWAS\n這個系中介層\nCOWAS就是所謂的系中介層\n當成是這個連接的這個過程\n那因為它也是要用系的來\n這個製程\n所以我們知道系是很貴的東西\n所以它就是成本比較貴\n那系橋是怎麼樣\n它把它變成是說\n它在這個ABF裡面去挖這個橋\n挖那種這個橋\n這個我等於是晶片跟晶片\n之後我就用這個類似一個系橋\n用橋的方式把它接起來的一個狀況\n我就不要一整片\n對 我不用一整片\n我就省一些錢起來\n對 所以理論上\n它本來就會比這個太極電的\n因為它也要用矽\n我們知道這個矽條是誰在做\n聯電\n它也是要用晶圓代工的矽製程\n但是它的面積就小很多\n所以它直觀上\n它絕對會是比較\n成本比較低的\n但它會有一個問題是這樣子\n你在這個很多晶片要組合的時候\n你就要挖很多矽條\n這個難度會很高\n所以現在在大晶片\n或是說你要這個傳輸速度快的時候\n可能還是要用這個所謂COVAS\n但是EMIB如果这个技术越来越成熟\n比如说挖的越来越成熟的时候\n这可能的确会造成相关的影响\n尤其是如果我只要某些晶片\n跟某些晶片连接在一起的时候\n它的灵活度会更好\n那我可以省更多成分\n所以现在包括说像Google\n或者说像这个联发科\n甚至像这个所谓Meta\n为什么他们要采用\n因为我不需要用到像这个\n挥打GPU这么高的这个算力的时候\n或许用这个EMIBT\n会是比较好的这个技术\n那当然因为这样来说\n台积电当然会紧张\n也就是说\n如果我要保有灵活度\n跟我的成本的时候\n我也要发展\n类似这样一个产品\n所以现在传言说\n他跟景硕\n为什么会跟景硕合作\n因为我刚才讲到\n他是要在ABF基板里面挖桥\n所以他一定要跟ABF合作\n原因就在这个地方\n那你看到说\n这个Intel跟谁合作\nIntel当然就是跟这个星星\n或是跟这个Ebiton\n来互相的合作\n所以对台积电来讲\n为什么他要发展\n这个类似EMIB的产品\n因为它目前为止的产能蛮宅\n它很怕说\n很多人会因为这个技术的便宜\n它就转到那边\n那我也有寄出相关的产品的话\n你未来就可能\n这个你要跳槽的可能性就比较低\n不过它现在EMIB遇到一个问题\n这是我们国内的这个栽班厂商\n或是日本厂商这个讲的\n就是说没有错\n传言说它的良率90%\n但是这个栽班厂商说还早\n我们国内的厂商就说\n這個良率目前要挖下去\n目前良率只有50%\n所以如果假設\n它良率只有50%的話\n你真的要大規模商產\n你說你90%\n但是基本上說是50%\n所以看起來我才說\n短時間之內可能\n很可能是實驗室90%\n對 或者說小批量OK\n但是你要真正大量量產\n可能有很大難度\n不過我們比如說\nEMIB來說對台灣有沒有好處\n當然有\n事實上除了這個所謂\n這個Intel之外\n因為它要找一些相關的供應鏈\n目前為止最重要功力有兩個\n一個就是我們一直講到\n你要挖細橋\n細橋就是由台積\n由聯電來做\n細橋原件這個部分\n另外一個部分是什麼\n細電容\n那細電容目前為止來說\n跟立基電互相的合作\n所以目前為止\n兩個可能是EMIB的\n還有聯發科要切入這個平台\n那另外一個就是\n我覺得這個會讓怎麼樣\n因為他們會排擠掉一些\n成熟製程的這個產能\n所以原本成熟製程的\n已經是很缺了\n結果他們會受惠到這個封裝\n他们也会产能更缺\n所以你看前一阵子\n包括说像世界先进\n联电 利基电都说什么\n我们现在的产能利用率\n已经百分之90了\n那明年的产能会增加\n甚至明年还要再涨价\n所以你看毛利率以前\n如果以这个世界先进\n或联电来说\n30就很偷笑了\n现在毛利率可以挑战到\n45到50%\n所以完全是不一样了\n那尤其是最近刚才\n大家都会讨论到利基电\n因为黄冲任董事长\n不幸的往生了\n但是現在按照新團隊的說法是說\n明年我們一定會配息\n既然是黃聰能董事長的遺願\n我們一定會這樣做\n經營團隊不變\n賣給美光的可以500億的現金\n然後包括說跟美光合作\nHBM等等\n所以目前為止外資\n也把目標價上修到100塊\n所以我覺得其實這個部分\n就EMIB跟成熟製程\n我們可以一併合併來看\n裡面來講話\n當然利基電\n那你今天來說的話\n當然我覺得新經營團隊\n回到所謂專業經理人的部分\n那我覺得當然後續我們很期待說\n他能夠慢慢的走出\n黃松東董事長過市的壓力\n目前為止來說\n股價還沒有回到季線\n紅色是季線\n我覺得應該有機會回到季線之後\n站穩應該還有機會再往上挑戰\n那聯電來說的話\n剛才杜達士已經講了\n我覺得其實聯電在往下跌\n他今年EPS只好7塊到8塊\n你說百元左右\n我覺得其實是相對\n進入一個投資的價值\n另外一個就是\n剛才杜納斯有講到的\nABF載板這兩塊\n這兩塊來講的話\n你如果去看他們的\n第二季的獲利跟毛利\n其實升得最快的\n就是景碩跟新興兩檔\n尤其是他們接下來來說\n景碩獲得台積電的合作\nIMIT的EMIB要跟他合作\n新興本來就有跟台積電\n有在合作Coast的產品\n那又有在跟Intel在合作\n所以这两家公司都是可以留意\n只是说他们的问题是什么\n你看他们短期涨幅都很大\n他们都已经谈过了季限\n而且还谈了有一段幅度\n甚至紧缩距离历史新高都不远\n那这种股票我们只能够\n拉回你再来考虑\n你千万不要去追高\n就是他等谈\n他这阵子谈得非常的高\n谈得非常高的时候表示什么\n他有机会再创新高\n但是你千万不要去追高\n等到拉回的时候\n再來逢低布局\n這個景碩跟信心這兩家公司\n好 所以我們看到了\n這個是先進封裝的一個\n這個技術的一個\n這個拉扯競爭\n當然這個台積電\n這個無庸置疑\n現在跑得最前面了\n那現在英特爾在往後追\n那帶出來的一些相關技術\n給大家做參考",
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    {
      "start": 0.0,
      "end": 1.8,
      "text": "我們要帶你們來看到這個是聯發科",
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      "end": 3.5,
      "text": "現在我們看到了這個業界",
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      "start": 3.5,
      "end": 6.1,
      "text": "產業界大家對它的一個前景有志一同",
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      "start": 6.1,
      "end": 8.0,
      "text": "到底呢 聯發科最近在做什麼",
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      "start": 8.0,
      "end": 10.4,
      "text": "趕快有請這個國政哥帶我們來看看囉",
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      "start": 10.4,
      "end": 11.5,
      "text": "聯發科告訴大家說",
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      "start": 11.5,
      "end": 12.8,
      "text": "這個客製化的晶片",
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      "end": 15.7,
      "text": "這個市占率目標上修到20%",
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      "end": 18.0,
      "text": "他選擇了一條跟博通不一樣的路",
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      "text": "再來馬斯克的伺服器的機櫃",
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      "start": 103.2,
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      "start": 112.3,
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      "start": 118.28,
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      "text": "很悬殊的道路",
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      "start": 123.6,
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      "text": "我去做这些系统",
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      "start": 125.1,
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      "text": "其实我会拉低我的毛利",
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      "start": 126.84,
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      "start": 132.24,
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      "text": "所以大家会觉得说",
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      "start": 133.3,
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      "start": 135.18,
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      "text": "可是对联发科来讲",
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      "text": "如果我去做基板的话",
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      "text": "那我可能相对的毛利",
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      "text": "或机柜设计",
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      "text": "我相对的毛利就会比较低",
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      "text": "这些新买家以及旧买家",
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      "text": "他们缴了很多东西",
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      "text": "也就是说我本来在跟你买晶片的时候",
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      "text": "我还必须跟博通跟辉达",
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    {
      "start": 172.34,
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      "text": "绑定相关系统的产品",
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      "text": "所以以至于",
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      "text": "他付了相对比较多的钱",
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      "text": "这采购硬体",
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      "text": "那这个对于他们讲",
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      "text": "在Google这些云章业者",
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      "text": "都体验到了",
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      "text": "那联发科就想到",
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      "text": "那我要解决这个问题",
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      "text": "那有人是不是能够帮我",
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      "start": 194.08,
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      "text": "把基板的采购跟伺服器的采购",
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      "start": 197.08,
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      "text": "好好的搞明白 说清楚",
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      "text": "所以对于来讲",
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      "text": "联发科就可以把所谓的",
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    {
      "start": 203.42,
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      "text": "系统效能极大化",
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      "text": "以及客户的需求",
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    {
      "start": 207.56,
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      "text": "给提高到极致",
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      "text": "所以对于Google",
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      "text": "这些买家来讲",
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      "text": "我总算有人来",
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      "text": "好好的帮我搞清楚",
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    {
      "start": 214.22,
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      "text": "硬体这一端的事情",
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    {
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      "text": "跟整个机柜的事情",
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      "text": "好 那对于联发科来讲",
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      "text": "这问题好处是什么",
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      "text": "我不只挥打",
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      "text": "只会做晶片",
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    {
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    {
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      "text": "虽然他会牺牲毛利",
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      "text": "整个研发科他会变成什么",
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    {
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      "text": "而是他会越来越像挥达",
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      "text": "那是他可以提高市占",
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      "text": "未来市场越来越大",
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      "text": "除了刚才我们讲的",
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      "text": "所谓的Google这些人",
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      "text": "Meta这些人",
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      "start": 266.6,
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      "text": "或者是马斯克特斯拉",
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      "start": 268.14,
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      "text": "他们因为所谓的系统机柜",
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      "text": "付了都付很多钱",
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      "start": 272.38,
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      "text": "所以需要有人来帮他设计",
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      "start": 274.16,
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      "text": "晶片加整套服务之外",
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      "text": "其实还有很多新的买家",
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    {
      "start": 278.94,
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      "text": "正在崛起",
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      "text": "包括OpenAI跟Enthopi",
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      "text": "像Enthopi最近也宣布说",
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      "start": 283.74,
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      "text": "他也要跨入所谓的",
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      "start": 286.18,
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      "text": "内系设计",
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      "start": 289.04,
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      "text": "那这里必须要解释一件事情",
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      "start": 290.74,
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      "start": 293.4,
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      "text": "现在进入了所谓的7nm之后",
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      "start": 296.78,
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      "text": "其实全球500大",
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      "text": "放眼全球500大",
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      "text": "每几家公司",
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      "start": 302.32,
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      "text": "愿有那么大的资源",
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      "text": "所谓的台积电的制程",
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      "text": "就叫ASC的服务",
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      "text": "它想要的是坚守这个利润",
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    {
      "start": 373.5,
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      "text": "可是联发科相对的",
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    {
      "start": 374.82,
      "end": 376.84,
      "text": "在整个供应链都在台湾的时候",
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    {
      "start": 376.84,
      "end": 378.74,
      "text": "相對它的優勢就會比較明顯",
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    {
      "start": 378.74,
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      "text": "好 非常謝謝國登哥",
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    {
      "start": 380.0,
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      "text": "但我們看到",
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    {
      "start": 380.54,
      "end": 382.02,
      "text": "這是聯發科做出了一條",
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    {
      "start": 382.02,
      "end": 383.52,
      "text": "跟博通不一樣的選擇",
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    {
      "start": 383.52,
      "end": 385.66,
      "text": "那當然我們有我們的一個利基點",
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    {
      "start": 385.66,
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      "text": "那聯發科這條路",
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    {
      "start": 386.78,
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      "text": "會不會走得很順暢呢",
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    {
      "start": 388.16,
      "end": 389.84,
      "text": "就讓我們持續來觀察它",
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    {
      "start": 389.84,
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      "text": "我們要帶大家來看看了",
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    {
      "start": 391.54,
      "end": 393.06,
      "text": "這個最近的一個大消息",
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    {
      "start": 393.06,
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      "text": "就是台積電最近",
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    {
      "start": 394.62,
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      "text": "有一點壓力",
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    {
      "start": 395.52,
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      "text": "是因為大家發現",
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    {
      "start": 396.62,
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      "text": "英特爾開始往前追了",
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    {
      "start": 399.22,
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      "text": "我們來看到說他威脅台積電",
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    {
      "start": 401.54,
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      "text": "當然了 打一個大問號了",
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    {
      "start": 403.3,
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      "text": "但是人家的良率在提升",
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    {
      "start": 405.5,
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      "text": "这也是不争的事实",
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    {
      "start": 407.1,
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      "text": "好我们来看先进封装当中",
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    {
      "start": 409.62,
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      "text": "英特尔的良率据说",
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    {
      "start": 411.7,
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      "text": "拉到了将近九成",
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    {
      "start": 414.68,
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      "text": "好那它拉到九成",
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    {
      "start": 416.72,
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      "text": "还有一个就是",
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    {
      "start": 418.08,
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      "text": "他们说台积电非常罕见的",
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    {
      "start": 421.36,
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      "text": "要跟着英特尔的屁股后面",
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    {
      "start": 424.14,
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      "text": "也要做他们的同样的技术",
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    {
      "start": 426.8,
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      "text": "要开发类EMIB的一个专案",
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    {
      "start": 430.06,
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      "text": "是拉着紧硕一起",
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    {
      "start": 431.54,
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      "text": "这又代表什么意思",
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    {
      "start": 433.12,
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      "text": "是英特尔做对了",
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    {
      "start": 434.6,
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      "text": "所以台積電要學嗎",
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    {
      "start": 436.06,
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      "text": "那英特爾現在良率拉升了",
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    {
      "start": 437.98,
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      "text": "真的會威脅到台積電嗎",
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    {
      "start": 439.46,
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      "text": "請教一下石聰哥",
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    {
      "start": 440.5,
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      "text": "對 我覺得這個EMIB",
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    {
      "start": 441.9,
      "end": 443.16,
      "text": "這個短時間之內",
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      "avg_logprob": -0.14396809517069065,
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    {
      "start": 443.16,
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      "text": "不會對台積電造成威脅",
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    {
      "start": 444.8,
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      "text": "但是長遠的來看",
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    {
      "start": 446.02,
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      "text": "的確是有可能",
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    {
      "start": 446.98,
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      "text": "所以為什麼台積電",
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    {
      "start": 447.96,
      "end": 451.16,
      "text": "它也要發展類似這樣的一個產品",
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    {
      "start": 451.16,
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      "text": "那我先跟它講",
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    {
      "start": 452.28,
      "end": 454.0,
      "text": "主要原因是因為最近傳出來說",
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    {
      "start": 454.0,
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      "text": "英特爾的EMIB-T的良率",
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    {
      "start": 456.22,
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      "text": "已經來到90%",
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    {
      "start": 457.9,
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      "text": "那90%來說",
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    {
      "start": 458.92,
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      "text": "其實跟台積電的CoOS的封裝",
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    {
      "start": 461.28,
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      "text": "是差不多的",
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    {
      "start": 462.24,
      "end": 464.52,
      "text": "所以如果真的假設是這樣子的話",
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    {
      "start": 464.52,
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      "text": "我先說是假設是這個樣子的話",
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    {
      "start": 467.18,
      "end": 469.88,
      "text": "那的確會對台積電造成很大的壓力",
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    {
      "start": 469.88,
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      "text": "為什麼這樣講",
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    {
      "start": 470.76,
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      "text": "我先跟大家稍微解釋一下",
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    {
      "start": 472.2,
      "end": 473.1,
      "text": "什麼叫做CoA",
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      "avg_logprob": -0.1955810026689009,
      "no_speech_prob": 2.6171438280431225e-11,
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    {
      "start": 473.1,
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      "text": "什麼叫EMIB",
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      "avg_logprob": -0.1955810026689009,
      "no_speech_prob": 2.6171438280431225e-11,
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    {
      "start": 474.36,
      "end": 476.3,
      "text": "那我們知道事實上現在",
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    {
      "start": 476.3,
      "end": 478.36,
      "text": "我們不是在一個晶片上面有",
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    {
      "start": 478.36,
      "end": 479.8,
      "text": "包括說像CPU GPU",
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    {
      "start": 480.0,
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      "text": "HBM等等嗎",
      "chunk": 1,
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    {
      "start": 480.84,
      "end": 483.6,
      "text": "然後把它完全的組裝在一起嗎",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "avg_logprob": -0.15976475506294063,
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    {
      "start": 483.6,
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      "text": "你要封裝到下面的",
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      "start": 485.4,
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      "text": "這個PCB上面的時候",
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      "start": 486.8,
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      "text": "你要用一個中介層",
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      "text": "中介層下面是基板",
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      "start": 490.62,
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      "text": "就是ABF基板",
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      "text": "但是你ABF跟這個晶片中間",
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      "start": 494.7,
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      "text": "還有一個叫做這個COWAS",
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      "start": 496.24,
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      "start": 499.7,
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      "text": "當成是這個連接的這個過程",
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      "start": 502.4,
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      "text": "那因為它也是要用系的來",
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    {
      "start": 504.5,
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      "text": "這個製程",
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      "text": "所以我們知道系是很貴的東西",
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      "start": 507.34,
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      "start": 508.84,
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      "text": "那系橋是怎麼樣",
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      "start": 510.34,
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      "text": "它把它變成是說",
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      "start": 511.16,
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      "text": "它在這個ABF裡面去挖這個橋",
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      "start": 513.76,
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      "text": "挖那種這個橋",
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    {
      "start": 515.26,
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      "text": "這個我等於是晶片跟晶片",
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      "start": 516.76,
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      "text": "之後我就用這個類似一個系橋",
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      "start": 518.5,
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      "text": "用橋的方式把它接起來的一個狀況",
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      "text": "我就不要一整片",
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      "start": 522.76,
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      "text": "我就省一些錢起來",
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      "start": 524.36,
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      "text": "對 所以理論上",
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      "text": "它本來就會比這個太極電的",
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      "text": "因為它也要用矽",
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      "text": "聯電",
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      "start": 531.9,
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      "text": "它也是要用晶圓代工的矽製程",
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      "text": "但是它的面積就小很多",
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      "text": "所以它直觀上",
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      "text": "成本比較低的",
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      "start": 539.38,
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      "text": "但它會有一個問題是這樣子",
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      "text": "你在這個很多晶片要組合的時候",
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      "text": "這個難度會很高",
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      "start": 548.62,
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      "text": "可能還是要用這個所謂COVAS",
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      "start": 558.44,
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      "text": "这可能的确会造成相关的影响",
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      "start": 561.9,
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      "text": "尤其是如果我只要某些晶片",
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      "start": 564.0,
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      "text": "跟某些晶片连接在一起的时候",
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      "start": 565.72,
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      "text": "它的灵活度会更好",
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      "start": 567.22,
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      "text": "那我可以省更多成分",
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      "text": "所以现在包括说像Google",
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      "text": "或者说像这个联发科",
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    {
      "start": 572.48,
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      "text": "甚至像这个所谓Meta",
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    {
      "start": 573.88,
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      "text": "为什么他们要采用",
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      "start": 574.78,
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      "text": "因为我不需要用到像这个",
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    {
      "start": 576.76,
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      "text": "挥打GPU这么高的这个算力的时候",
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      "text": "或许用这个EMIBT",
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      "start": 581.6,
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      "text": "会是比较好的这个技术",
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      "start": 583.3,
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      "text": "那当然因为这样来说",
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      "start": 584.78,
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      "text": "台积电当然会紧张",
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      "start": 585.76,
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      "text": "也就是说",
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      "start": 586.4,
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      "text": "如果我要保有灵活度",
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    {
      "start": 587.88,
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      "text": "跟我的成本的时候",
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    {
      "start": 589.06,
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      "text": "我也要发展",
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    {
      "start": 590.1,
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      "text": "类似这样一个产品",
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      "start": 591.22,
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      "text": "所以现在传言说",
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      "text": "他跟景硕",
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      "text": "因为我刚才讲到",
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      "text": "他是要在ABF基板里面挖桥",
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      "text": "所以他一定要跟ABF合作",
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      "text": "原因就在这个地方",
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      "text": "那你看到说",
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      "text": "这个Intel跟谁合作",
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      "text": "或是跟这个Ebiton",
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      "text": "来互相的合作",
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      "text": "所以对台积电来讲",
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      "start": 610.22,
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      "text": "为什么他要发展",
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      "start": 611.28,
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      "text": "这个类似EMIB的产品",
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      "text": "它很怕说",
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      "start": 616.98,
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      "text": "它就转到那边",
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      "text": "那我也有寄出相关的产品的话",
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      "text": "你未来就可能",
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      "text": "这个你要跳槽的可能性就比较低",
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      "text": "这是我们国内的这个栽班厂商",
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      "text": "或是日本厂商这个讲的",
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      "text": "传言说它的良率90%",
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      "text": "這個良率目前要挖下去",
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      "text": "它良率只有50%的話",
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      "start": 646.92,
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      "text": "你真的要大規模商產",
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      "text": "短時間之內可能",
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      "text": "對 或者說小批量OK",
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      "text": "事實上除了這個所謂",
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      "text": "這個Intel之外",
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      "text": "因為它要找一些相關的供應鏈",
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      "text": "細橋原件這個部分",
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      "text": "兩個可能是EMIB的",
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      "start": 685.76,
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      "text": "還有聯發科要切入這個平台",
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      "text": "因為他們會排擠掉一些",
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      "text": "成熟製程的這個產能",
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      "text": "已經是很缺了",
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      "start": 696.94,
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      "text": "結果他們會受惠到這個封裝",
      "chunk": 1,
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    {
      "start": 699.54,
      "end": 700.7,
      "text": "他们也会产能更缺",
      "chunk": 1,
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    {
      "start": 700.7,
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      "text": "所以你看前一阵子",
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      "compression_ratio": 1.3708206686930091
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    {
      "start": 701.74,
      "end": 703.42,
      "text": "包括说像世界先进",
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    {
      "start": 703.42,
      "end": 706.1,
      "text": "联电 利基电都说什么",
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    {
      "start": 706.1,
      "end": 707.96,
      "text": "我们现在的产能利用率",
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    {
      "start": 707.96,
      "end": 709.06,
      "text": "已经百分之90了",
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    {
      "start": 709.06,
      "end": 710.96,
      "text": "那明年的产能会增加",
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    {
      "start": 710.96,
      "end": 712.66,
      "text": "甚至明年还要再涨价",
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    {
      "start": 712.66,
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      "text": "所以你看毛利率以前",
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    {
      "start": 714.64,
      "end": 716.58,
      "text": "如果以这个世界先进",
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    {
      "start": 716.58,
      "end": 717.3,
      "text": "或联电来说",
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    {
      "start": 717.3,
      "end": 719.36,
      "text": "30就很偷笑了",
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    {
      "start": 719.36,
      "end": 720.96,
      "text": "现在毛利率可以挑战到",
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    {
      "start": 720.96,
      "end": 722.28,
      "text": "45到50%",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "compression_ratio": 1.3708206686930091
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    {
      "start": 722.28,
      "end": 723.88,
      "text": "所以完全是不一样了",
      "chunk": 1,
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    {
      "start": 723.88,
      "end": 725.4,
      "text": "那尤其是最近刚才",
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    {
      "start": 725.4,
      "end": 726.74,
      "text": "大家都会讨论到利基电",
      "chunk": 1,
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    {
      "start": 726.74,
      "end": 728.3,
      "text": "因为黄冲任董事长",
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    {
      "start": 728.3,
      "end": 729.4,
      "text": "不幸的往生了",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "compression_ratio": 1.3708206686930091
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    {
      "start": 729.4,
      "end": 733.12,
      "text": "但是現在按照新團隊的說法是說",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "no_speech_prob": 4.7203522340888426e-11,
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    {
      "start": 733.12,
      "end": 735.3,
      "text": "明年我們一定會配息",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "avg_logprob": -0.17723778674477025,
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    {
      "start": 735.3,
      "end": 737.4,
      "text": "既然是黃聰能董事長的遺願",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "avg_logprob": -0.17723778674477025,
      "no_speech_prob": 4.7203522340888426e-11,
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    {
      "start": 737.4,
      "end": 738.4,
      "text": "我們一定會這樣做",
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    {
      "start": 738.4,
      "end": 740.1,
      "text": "經營團隊不變",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "avg_logprob": -0.17723778674477025,
      "no_speech_prob": 4.7203522340888426e-11,
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    {
      "start": 740.1,
      "end": 744.6,
      "text": "賣給美光的可以500億的現金",
      "chunk": 1,
      "language": "zh",
      "avg_logprob": -0.17723778674477025,
      "no_speech_prob": 4.7203522340888426e-11,
      "compression_ratio": 1.2694805194805194
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    {
      "start": 744.6,
      "end": 746.18,
      "text": "然後包括說跟美光合作",
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      "avg_logprob": -0.17723778674477025,
      "no_speech_prob": 4.7203522340888426e-11,
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    {
      "start": 746.18,
      "end": 746.96,
      "text": "HBM等等",
      "chunk": 1,
      "language": "zh",
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      "no_speech_prob": 4.7203522340888426e-11,
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    {
      "start": 746.96,
      "end": 748.7,
      "text": "所以目前為止外資",
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      "avg_logprob": -0.17723778674477025,
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    {
      "start": 748.7,
      "end": 751.0,
      "text": "也把目標價上修到100塊",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "avg_logprob": -0.17723778674477025,
      "no_speech_prob": 4.7203522340888426e-11,
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    {
      "start": 751.0,
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      "text": "所以我覺得其實這個部分",
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    {
      "start": 752.52,
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      "text": "就EMIB跟成熟製程",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "avg_logprob": -0.17723778674477025,
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    {
      "start": 753.98,
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      "text": "我們可以一併合併來看",
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      "no_speech_prob": 4.7203522340888426e-11,
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    {
      "start": 755.44,
      "end": 756.62,
      "text": "裡面來講話",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "avg_logprob": -0.17723778674477025,
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      "compression_ratio": 1.2694805194805194
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    {
      "start": 756.62,
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      "text": "當然利基電",
      "chunk": 1,
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    {
      "start": 758.18,
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      "text": "那你今天來說的話",
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    {
      "start": 759.48,
      "end": 760.88,
      "text": "當然我覺得新經營團隊",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "avg_logprob": -0.1716879770427407,
      "no_speech_prob": 2.943718532821826e-11,
      "compression_ratio": 1.3920972644376899
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    {
      "start": 760.88,
      "end": 764.08,
      "text": "回到所謂專業經理人的部分",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "avg_logprob": -0.1716879770427407,
      "no_speech_prob": 2.943718532821826e-11,
      "compression_ratio": 1.3920972644376899
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    {
      "start": 764.08,
      "end": 766.34,
      "text": "那我覺得當然後續我們很期待說",
      "chunk": 1,
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    {
      "start": 766.34,
      "end": 768.1,
      "text": "他能夠慢慢的走出",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "avg_logprob": -0.1716879770427407,
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    {
      "start": 768.1,
      "end": 770.2,
      "text": "黃松東董事長過市的壓力",
      "chunk": 1,
      "language": "zh",
      "avg_logprob": -0.1716879770427407,
      "no_speech_prob": 2.943718532821826e-11,
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    {
      "start": 770.2,
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      "text": "目前為止來說",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "avg_logprob": -0.1716879770427407,
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    {
      "start": 771.54,
      "end": 772.86,
      "text": "股價還沒有回到季線",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "avg_logprob": -0.1716879770427407,
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    {
      "start": 772.86,
      "end": 773.8,
      "text": "紅色是季線",
      "chunk": 1,
      "language": "zh",
      "avg_logprob": -0.1716879770427407,
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    {
      "start": 773.8,
      "end": 775.68,
      "text": "我覺得應該有機會回到季線之後",
      "chunk": 1,
      "language": "zh",
      "avg_logprob": -0.1716879770427407,
      "no_speech_prob": 2.943718532821826e-11,
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    {
      "start": 775.68,
      "end": 777.9,
      "text": "站穩應該還有機會再往上挑戰",
      "chunk": 1,
      "language": "zh",
      "avg_logprob": -0.1716879770427407,
      "no_speech_prob": 2.943718532821826e-11,
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    {
      "start": 777.9,
      "end": 779.14,
      "text": "那聯電來說的話",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "avg_logprob": -0.1716879770427407,
      "no_speech_prob": 2.943718532821826e-11,
      "compression_ratio": 1.3920972644376899
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    {
      "start": 779.14,
      "end": 780.9,
      "text": "剛才杜達士已經講了",
      "chunk": 1,
      "language": "zh",
      "avg_logprob": -0.1716879770427407,
      "no_speech_prob": 2.943718532821826e-11,
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    {
      "start": 780.9,
      "end": 783.14,
      "text": "我覺得其實聯電在往下跌",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "avg_logprob": -0.1716879770427407,
      "no_speech_prob": 2.943718532821826e-11,
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    {
      "start": 783.14,
      "end": 786.08,
      "text": "他今年EPS只好7塊到8塊",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "avg_logprob": -0.1716879770427407,
      "no_speech_prob": 2.943718532821826e-11,
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    {
      "start": 786.08,
      "end": 787.6,
      "text": "你說百元左右",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "avg_logprob": -0.1716879770427407,
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      "compression_ratio": 1.3920972644376899
    },
    {
      "start": 787.6,
      "end": 788.98,
      "text": "我覺得其實是相對",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "avg_logprob": -0.18160116134151336,
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      "compression_ratio": 1.3380782918149465
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    {
      "start": 788.98,
      "end": 791.12,
      "text": "進入一個投資的價值",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "avg_logprob": -0.18160116134151336,
      "no_speech_prob": 3.2413797340646866e-11,
      "compression_ratio": 1.3380782918149465
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    {
      "start": 791.12,
      "end": 792.38,
      "text": "另外一個就是",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "avg_logprob": -0.18160116134151336,
      "no_speech_prob": 3.2413797340646866e-11,
      "compression_ratio": 1.3380782918149465
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    {
      "start": 792.38,
      "end": 793.92,
      "text": "剛才杜納斯有講到的",
      "chunk": 1,
      "language": "zh",
      "avg_logprob": -0.18160116134151336,
      "no_speech_prob": 3.2413797340646866e-11,
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    {
      "start": 793.92,
      "end": 795.58,
      "text": "ABF載板這兩塊",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "avg_logprob": -0.18160116134151336,
      "no_speech_prob": 3.2413797340646866e-11,
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    {
      "start": 795.58,
      "end": 796.88,
      "text": "這兩塊來講的話",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "avg_logprob": -0.18160116134151336,
      "no_speech_prob": 3.2413797340646866e-11,
      "compression_ratio": 1.3380782918149465
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    {
      "start": 796.88,
      "end": 798.22,
      "text": "你如果去看他們的",
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      "avg_logprob": -0.18160116134151336,
      "no_speech_prob": 3.2413797340646866e-11,
      "compression_ratio": 1.3380782918149465
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    {
      "start": 798.22,
      "end": 800.68,
      "text": "第二季的獲利跟毛利",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "avg_logprob": -0.18160116134151336,
      "no_speech_prob": 3.2413797340646866e-11,
      "compression_ratio": 1.3380782918149465
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    {
      "start": 800.68,
      "end": 802.44,
      "text": "其實升得最快的",
      "chunk": 1,
      "language": "zh",
      "avg_logprob": -0.18160116134151336,
      "no_speech_prob": 3.2413797340646866e-11,
      "compression_ratio": 1.3380782918149465
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    {
      "start": 802.44,
      "end": 804.18,
      "text": "就是景碩跟新興兩檔",
      "chunk": 1,
      "language": "zh",
      "avg_logprob": -0.18160116134151336,
      "no_speech_prob": 3.2413797340646866e-11,
      "compression_ratio": 1.3380782918149465
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    {
      "start": 804.18,
      "end": 806.48,
      "text": "尤其是他們接下來來說",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "avg_logprob": -0.18160116134151336,
      "no_speech_prob": 3.2413797340646866e-11,
      "compression_ratio": 1.3380782918149465
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    {
      "start": 806.48,
      "end": 809.14,
      "text": "景碩獲得台積電的合作",
      "chunk": 1,
      "language": "zh",
      "avg_logprob": -0.18160116134151336,
      "no_speech_prob": 3.2413797340646866e-11,
      "compression_ratio": 1.3380782918149465
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    {
      "start": 809.14,
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      "text": "IMIT的EMIB要跟他合作",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "text": "這個景碩跟信心這兩家公司",
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      "text": "好 所以我們看到了",
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