{
  "text": "很多人就會擔心說\n以後美國的AI是不是都被中國人掌握呢?\n這種擔心有一個說法叫做\n人才紅襲\n美國花幾十年花一億美金養出來的這批人\n會不會有一天整批被中國吸回去呢?\n要守的是能做出這些東西的人\n而美國現在做的事\n有可能就是在把他們往外推\n歡迎收看Kellie Channel 我是Kellie\n近年來很多人在講一件事\n說矽谷的AI其實是中國人做出來的\n或者說AI人才現在幾乎都是中國人\n矽谷的AI公司\n越來越常可以聽到大家在說中文\n甚至連AI論文的作者欄\n中文的拼音也成能佔一半以上\n馬斯克的XAI在2023年成立的時候\n加上馬斯克總共有12個人\n其中4個是華人\n現在X上面在用的Grok\n就是JP人一起做出來的\n同樣的像是OpenAI在管研究和安全的副總裁\nMeta的AI研究總監\n都是在中國唸完大學再到美國讀博士的人\n很多人就會擔心說\n以後美國的AI是不是都被中國人掌握呢\n這種擔心有一個說法叫做人才紅希\n紅希就是像插一根吸管\n把另一邊的人整批給吸過去\n美國花幾十年花一億美金養出來的這批人\n會不會有一天整批被中國吸回去呢?\n這一集我們就來仔細聊一聊\n中國人才紅希這個印象是怎麼來的\n以及這件事情到底能不能信呢?\n那我們就馬上開始吧!\n在2025年的時候\nMeta成立了一個叫做\nSuper Intelligence Labs的超級智慧實驗室\n年薪從一千萬美金起跳\n甚至還有超過一億的簽約金超級誇張\n被外流的44人核心名單裡面\n有四成來自OpenAI\n兩成來自Google DeepMind\n其中大概一半是華人\n比如OpenAI被挖走的首席科學家\n趙成佳\n是中國清華大學畢業史丹佛博士\nChartGPT、GPT4跟O1的推理模型都有他的貢獻\n這件事情雖然在AI爆發之後越來越多\n可是中國人在AI領域的耕耘\n是很早以前就有的\n比如在2015年\n四個在中國出生的研究員\n在微軟位於北京的亞洲研究院\n做出一個叫做ResNet的東西\n現在的影像辨識、自駕車\n還有後來一大票模型都是建在上面\nNature就有統計過\n這篇是21世紀被引用次數最多的論文\n裡面的第一作者何凱銘\n後來也去了Facebook的AI實驗室\n2019年還有兩篇論文\n一篇叫做Transformer XL\n一篇叫做XLNet\n在GPT3出來以前\n這兩篇是大家最看重的語言模型研究\n這兩篇的前兩位作者\n是卡內基美龍同一個實驗室出來的搭檔\n在七年之後\n其中一位叫做楊芷玲\n他人回到北京\n做的就是中國的那個AI助理Kimi\n另外一位則是留在矽谷\n成為XAI的共同創辦人\n做的是Grock\n同一個實驗室的兩個人\n現在各自做出一個大家耳熟難想的模型\n一個是在北京 一個是在矽谷\n美國自己把中國人給招進來\n甚至用一億美金把他們留下來\n這樣子他們到底要算\n事實上 中國人到底佔多少\n這個數字沒有人算得出來\n最常被拿出來當答案的是\nNurips的數字\nNurips是AI最大的學術會議\n2024的內界有4622個人發表論文\n大學在中國唸的佔38%\n在美國唸的佔24%\n五年前中國的那個數字還不到三成\n這組數字來自一個叫做Macro Polo的智庫\n可是你把它計算的方法開啟來看\n他用的是這個人的大學在哪裡唸\n不是國籍\nMacro Polo自己也在檔案裡面寫了\n這只是一個替代指標\n像是如果以我來說\n我大學在美國唸\n就已經會被歸類為是美國人那邊了\n換另外兩份常常被引用的資料也一樣\n一份自己說是用大學的所在地去推\n大概兩成的樣本可能推錯\n另外一份更粗暴\n直接是用姓名的演算法去猜這個人是不是華裔\n這件事情在現場就更模糊了\n我認識的人有的是在中國唸完大學\n來美國念碩博\n但是已經入了美國籍\n有的是美國出身\n中文只會講一點點\n也有臺灣長大\n美國工作\n但是家人還在臺北的\n這幾種人在統計上常常被算成統一類\n但其實是完全不同的三種人\n那美國政府這幾年花最多力氣搞清楚的\n就是這些人到底可不可靠\n丁林蔚是Google的軟體工程師\n2026年1月聯邦陪審團裁定他14項罪名\n包括經濟間諜跟竊取營業秘密\n根據美國司法部\n這是美國第一起跟AI有關的經濟間諜定罪\n他做的事情是\n把超過2000頁的Google內部AI機密檔案\n上傳到自己的私人雲端帳號\n同一時間秘密跟兩家中國公司有職務關係\n還在中國開了一家AI公司自任執行長\n這是一個人一個案子已經被抓到的業務定罪了\n但是美國官方建起來的框架\n涵乾的範圍就比這個案子還要大很多\n他們把中國的取材手法描述成社會動員\n焦點放在千人計劃這一類的專案上\n也就是中國政府用高薪跟研究經費\n把海外學者請回去的計劃\n連哈佛化學系一位美國本土出身的講座教授都被起訴\n理由是隱瞞自己參與千人計劃\n還有相關的稅務申報問題\n到了2025年5月\n美國政府積極宣佈要撤銷跟中共有關聯\n或者是就讀關鍵領域的中國學生簽證\n2018年到2022年\n美國司法部有一個專案\n叫做China Initiative\n中國行動計劃\n四年下來起訴了162名被告\n77個案子\n其中接近9成的被告是華裔\n可是定罪率大概只有1-1 3\n定罪率會這麼低\n是因為這些案子大多數的起訴事由\n都只是申報問題\n也就是在申請研究經費的表格上\n沒有揭露境外的關係或者收入\n美國國立衛生研究院自己檢討過一批相關的調查\n其中87.7%只是沒有申報關係\n而幾個最常被拿出來講的案子\n最後也是整個垮掉\n像是MIT的機械繫教授陳剛\n被纏送一年之後\n司法部撤回了所有的指控\n另外一位田納西大學的教授也是禍判無罪\n法官在判詞裡面寫說\n沒有任何理性的陪審團會認為他有意詐騙\n這些案子撐不住\n陳剛在獲釋之後有講出一些原因\n他說很少人知道\n包括MIT在內的多數美國大學\n校內都不做機密研究\n他們的目標就是把研究發表出來\nAI這個領域又更極端\n重要的成果大量以論文來公開發表\n模型本身也常常是免費放上網路讓人下載的\n但就算研究本來就是公開的\n還有一個會讓人擔心的\n就是這些人回去之後\n會不會去做武器\nCSCT追蹤過一批迴中國的國際理工博士\n從公開的職業紀錄來看\n多數進的是民間企業\n但是這種追蹤只看得到公開資料\n看不到的部分他也回答不了\n這套做法的代價\n美國國家經濟研究院就有算過\n2016年美中關係開始緊繃之後\n在美國的華裔科學家論文產出\n比非華裔的同儕掉了下來\n又有人乾脆就不再發表\n還沒有進來的那一端\n華裔研究生選擇\n有一位在Anthropic的研究員\n去年9月離開\n理由就是他自己公開講\n他不同意公司把中國定性在敵對的國家\n10天之後他去了Google DeepMind\n人還是沒有離開美國\n所以就連美國最前線的實驗室裡面\n這件事情都不是一個公式\n而且滲透這個說法\n跟這一行實際運作方式也對不上\n你沒有辦法偷一個\n本來就免費放在網路上的東西\n要守的是能做出這些東西的人\n而美國現在做的事\n有可能就是在把他們往外推\n那這些人到底會不會走呢?\n7月中Kimi K3發表之後\n矽谷在吵的就是這件事\n川普政府的AI顧問David Sachs說\n這就是輸掉AI競賽的方式\n投資人Venard Khosla把矛頭指向移民政策\n說美國把各國的優秀人才都嚇跑了\n兩邊都預設了同一件事\n就是楊芷琳本來應該要留在美國\n楊芝琳在卡尼基美隆的博士指導教授\n公開反駁了這個說法\n他說關於楊芝琳的簽證狀態\n跟他為什麼離開\n外面有很多混淆跟錯誤的訊息\n楊芝琳如果想要留在美國\n機會多的是\n當時還有蘋果的高階主管在挖他\n是他自己決定要回去創業\n但是這個教授也承認\n美國的移民流程確實讓人卻步\n即使是對明星級的博士畢業生也一樣\n那套制度整個是繞著受僱設計的\n你要來當員工 路是通的\n但是你要自己開公司\n就沒有人幫你設計過這條路\n美國留得住他們當員工\n但是留不住他們當創辦人\n而想要開公司的人\n現在還多了一道關卡\n中國也有一家做AI agent的新創\n叫做Manus\n2025年的6月\n拿到美國創投的錢之後\n總部就簽到了新加坡\n隔月清空了中國的社群帳號\n裁了80多名的中國員工\n把40位核心技術員搬過去\n同年12月\n同年12月Meta就宣佈\n大約用20億美元收購它\n創辦人蕭鴻要去當Meta的副總裁\n2026年3月\n中國主管產業政策的發改委\n就約談了蕭鴻和另外一位共同創辦人\n他們被限制出境\n4月的時候正式禁止了這樁收購\n理由包括技術外流\n還有人才輸出管制\n這是中國第一起公開的AI收購禁令\n以前走不走是這些人自己的決定\n現在兩邊政府都把它當作戰略資產在管理\n華府一個叫做卡內基國際和平基金會的智庫\n在2025年12月就追蹤了2019年Neurobs那屆\n頂尖的100位華裔研究者\n6年之後其中87個人還在美國工作\n回到中國的只有10個\n美國國家科學基金會CSCT的資料也對得起來\n中國籍的理工博士、流美的比例大概是九成\n但是那份統計直到2021年\n講的是過去累積下來的底子\n不能拿來反駁這一兩年的變化\n而回去的那條路本身就不好走\n中國那邊的海歸學歷這幾年正在貶值\n美國唸完回去求職拿到的面試回復\n甚至比本地畢業生還要少\n因為企業會擔心留不住人\n想要自己出來創業的那些人\n選的地方也還是在美國\n像是Only離開OpenAI\n田園洞離開META之後\n兩個都是在美國開了自己的公司\n所以如果中國人才宏悉是指\n把已經在美國的人給吸回去\n那數字其實是撐不住的\n那批人大多數都還在原地\n但是真正在動的不是他們\n是還沒有來的那一批\n有一組數字是史丹佛大學\n2026年4月的AI index報告\n移入美國的AI學者人數\n從2017年到現在減少了89%\n而且這個跌幅有八成集中在過去這一年\n但是報告也講得很清楚\n目前進到美國的研究員還是比離開得多\n只是美國吸引新人的速度\n已經是十幾年來的最低\n在繼續講這個數字之前\n要先來跟大家介紹一個\n最近超大的優惠活動\n就是派網Pionex的派卡\n派網最近把派卡的新使用者權益做了一次升級\n這次裡面我覺得最多人會有感的\n就是看電影買一送一\n週週買一送一一路到年底\n而且支援的影城超級多\n大家最近應該很多人去看奧德賽吧\n而且很多人都二刷三刷\n這樣你就可以邀請你的朋友、家人\n全部一起去跟你看\n那先來說說派卡是什麼\n它是一張儲值型的簽帳卡\n走Visa的通路\n用USDT這種跟美金1比1掛購的\n穩定幣儲值之後就可以刷\n我知道一講到穩定幣\n很多人第一個反應就是\n聽起來很麻煩\n但開卡真的是超級簡單\n只要一分鐘\n用我資訊欄的連結註冊之後\n登入APP只要點派卡\n填寫一下基本資料\n馬上就開好了\n全音的部分除了看電影買一送一之外\n還有像是用派卡儲值交通卡\n有5%的現金回饋\n還有在日本、韓國或者泰國\n用派卡消費回饋20%的體驗金\n可以拿去體驗派網的產品\n像是加密貨幣或者美股代幣都可以用\n再來還有在指定國家\n用派卡在ATM提現的話有2%的回饋\n另外還有一個我幫大家多爭取到的\n就是透過我的專屬邀請連結來註冊\n並且開通派卡的話\n可以再多拿5U的消費體驗金\n所有的連結我都會整理在下面資訊欄\n大家可以先用下面的連結來註冊再開卡\n不要錯過這個非常大的優惠喔\n好 那我們就回到正題\n那到底怎麼樣才叫做人才紅析呢?\n1980年代臺灣搶的是同一批人\n但是方法卻是反過來\n新竹科學園區當時沒有去查誰跟誰有關係\n他是把條件直接擺出來\n5年免所得稅\n園區裡面蓋好住宅跟國際學校\n讓人自己去算劃不划算\n光是1989年那一年\n就2840個人從美國回來新竹進竹科\n張忠謀也是那批迴來的人之一\n到了1999年\n園區裡面284家公司\n有110家是留美工程師創辦的\n紅吸這件事情\n從來就不是靠篩人篩出來的\n是靠條件吸出來的\n所以回到開頭那個問題\n美國的AI到底會不會被中國掌握呢?\n就現在看到的數字\n已經在美國的那批人大多沒有走\n但是後面那一整袋原本會來的人\n正在不來\n而美國現在正在做的事\n是在篩選不是在吸\n最後真正的答案不會是誰掌握了誰\n而是10年之後\n這批厲害的人選擇在哪裡繼續發展\n那如果今天這集有幫助到你瞭解\n中國和美國之間這個人才紅系的現象\n就幫這支影片點個讚\n然後訂閱我的頻道\n也可以留言跟我說你的看法\n那我們就下支影片再見囉\n掰掰",
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      "end": 1.24,
      "text": "很多人就會擔心說",
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      "start": 1.24,
      "end": 4.14,
      "text": "以後美國的AI是不是都被中國人掌握呢?",
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      "text": "這種擔心有一個說法叫做",
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      "end": 6.9,
      "text": "人才紅襲",
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      "start": 6.9,
      "end": 10.08,
      "text": "美國花幾十年花一億美金養出來的這批人",
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      "start": 10.08,
      "end": 12.68,
      "text": "會不會有一天整批被中國吸回去呢?",
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      "text": "而美國現在做的事",
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      "start": 16.08,
      "end": 17.96,
      "text": "有可能就是在把他們往外推",
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      "text": "歡迎收看Kellie Channel 我是Kellie",
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      "start": 58.96,
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      "text": "以及這件事情到底能不能信呢?",
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      "start": 84.4,
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      "start": 110.04,
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      "start": 112.48,
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      "text": "連哈佛化學系一位美國本土出身的講座教授都被起訴",
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      "start": 277.02,
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      "text": "還有相關的稅務申報問題",
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      "start": 278.62,
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      "text": "到了2025年5月",
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      "start": 280.14,
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      "text": "美國政府積極宣佈要撤銷跟中共有關聯",
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      "start": 283.28,
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      "text": "或者是就讀關鍵領域的中國學生簽證",
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      "text": "2018年到2022年",
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      "start": 287.66,
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      "text": "美國司法部有一個專案",
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      "start": 289.1,
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      "text": "叫做China Initiative",
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      "start": 291.7,
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      "text": "四年下來起訴了162名被告",
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      "text": "77個案子",
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      "text": "可是定罪率大概只有1-1 3",
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      "start": 301.26,
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      "start": 304.78,
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      "text": "美國國立衛生研究院自己檢討過一批相關的調查",
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      "text": "像是MIT的機械繫教授陳剛",
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      "text": "另外一位田納西大學的教授也是禍判無罪",
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      "text": "包括MIT在內的多數美國大學",
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      "text": "CSCT追蹤過一批迴中國的國際理工博士",
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      "text": "從公開的職業紀錄來看",
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      "start": 363.38,
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      "start": 365.08,
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      "text": "這套做法的代價",
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      "start": 366.18,
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      "text": "美國國家經濟研究院就有算過",
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      "text": "2016年美中關係開始緊繃之後",
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      "text": "華裔研究生選擇",
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      "start": 381.3,
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      "text": "有一位在Anthropic的研究員",
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      "text": "去年9月離開",
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      "text": "他不同意公司把中國定性在敵對的國家",
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      "text": "本來就免費放在網路上的東西",
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      "start": 405.5,
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      "text": "而美國現在做的事",
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      "text": "那這些人到底會不會走呢?",
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      "start": 410.46,
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      "text": "7月中Kimi K3發表之後",
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      "text": "矽谷在吵的就是這件事",
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      "text": "川普政府的AI顧問David Sachs說",
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      "text": "這就是輸掉AI競賽的方式",
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      "text": "投資人Venard Khosla把矛頭指向移民政策",
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      "text": "說美國把各國的優秀人才都嚇跑了",
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      "text": "兩邊都預設了同一件事",
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      "text": "就是楊芷琳本來應該要留在美國",
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      "text": "楊芝琳在卡尼基美隆的博士指導教授",
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      "text": "公開反駁了這個說法",
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      "text": "你要來當員工 路是通的",
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      "text": "2025年的6月",
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      "start": 476.72,
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      "text": "2026年3月",
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      "text": "回到中國的只有10個",
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      "avg_logprob": -0.16578041579195124,
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    {
      "start": 519.68,
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      "text": "美國國家科學基金會CSCT的資料也對得起來",
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    {
      "start": 523.12,
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      "text": "中國籍的理工博士、流美的比例大概是九成",
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    {
      "start": 526.48,
      "end": 528.52,
      "text": "但是那份統計直到2021年",
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    {
      "start": 528.52,
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      "text": "講的是過去累積下來的底子",
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    {
      "start": 530.7,
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      "text": "不能拿來反駁這一兩年的變化",
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    {
      "start": 532.7,
      "end": 534.82,
      "text": "而回去的那條路本身就不好走",
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    {
      "start": 534.82,
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      "text": "中國那邊的海歸學歷這幾年正在貶值",
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    {
      "start": 537.56,
      "end": 540.2,
      "text": "美國唸完回去求職拿到的面試回復",
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    {
      "start": 540.2,
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      "text": "甚至比本地畢業生還要少",
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    {
      "start": 542.26,
      "end": 544.04,
      "text": "因為企業會擔心留不住人",
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    {
      "start": 544.04,
      "end": 545.78,
      "text": "想要自己出來創業的那些人",
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    {
      "start": 545.78,
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      "text": "選的地方也還是在美國",
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    {
      "start": 547.68,
      "end": 549.34,
      "text": "像是Only離開OpenAI",
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    {
      "start": 549.34,
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      "text": "田園洞離開META之後",
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    {
      "start": 551.04,
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      "text": "兩個都是在美國開了自己的公司",
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    {
      "start": 553.18,
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      "text": "所以如果中國人才宏悉是指",
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    {
      "start": 555.24,
      "end": 557.44,
      "text": "把已經在美國的人給吸回去",
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      "start": 557.44,
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      "text": "那數字其實是撐不住的",
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      "start": 559.18,
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      "text": "那批人大多數都還在原地",
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    {
      "start": 561.14,
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      "text": "但是真正在動的不是他們",
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    {
      "start": 563.28,
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      "text": "是還沒有來的那一批",
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    {
      "start": 565.0,
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      "text": "有一組數字是史丹佛大學",
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    {
      "start": 567.04,
      "end": 569.5,
      "text": "2026年4月的AI index報告",
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    {
      "start": 569.5,
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      "text": "移入美國的AI學者人數",
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    {
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      "text": "從2017年到現在減少了89%",
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      "start": 574.5,
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      "text": "而且這個跌幅有八成集中在過去這一年",
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      "text": "但是報告也講得很清楚",
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      "text": "目前進到美國的研究員還是比離開得多",
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    {
      "start": 582.04,
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      "text": "只是美國吸引新人的速度",
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    {
      "start": 583.92,
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      "text": "已經是十幾年來的最低",
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      "start": 585.74,
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      "text": "在繼續講這個數字之前",
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    {
      "start": 587.22,
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      "text": "要先來跟大家介紹一個",
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    {
      "start": 588.54,
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      "text": "最近超大的優惠活動",
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    {
      "start": 590.38,
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      "text": "就是派網Pionex的派卡",
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      "start": 592.68,
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      "text": "派網最近把派卡的新使用者權益做了一次升級",
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      "start": 595.82,
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      "text": "這次裡面我覺得最多人會有感的",
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      "text": "就是看電影買一送一",
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    {
      "start": 599.66,
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      "text": "週週買一送一一路到年底",
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    {
      "start": 601.56,
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      "text": "而且支援的影城超級多",
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      "start": 603.46,
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      "text": "大家最近應該很多人去看奧德賽吧",
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      "start": 605.46,
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      "text": "而且很多人都二刷三刷",
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    {
      "start": 607.0,
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      "text": "這樣你就可以邀請你的朋友、家人",
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    {
      "start": 608.9,
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      "text": "全部一起去跟你看",
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    {
      "start": 610.14,
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      "text": "那先來說說派卡是什麼",
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    {
      "start": 611.7,
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      "text": "它是一張儲值型的簽帳卡",
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    {
      "start": 613.54,
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      "text": "走Visa的通路",
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      "compression_ratio": 1.347938144329897
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    {
      "start": 614.84,
      "end": 617.54,
      "text": "用USDT這種跟美金1比1掛購的",
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      "avg_logprob": -0.173674910540742,
      "no_speech_prob": 1.6694012491824672e-11,
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    {
      "start": 617.54,
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      "text": "穩定幣儲值之後就可以刷",
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      "start": 619.24,
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      "text": "我知道一講到穩定幣",
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    {
      "start": 620.54,
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      "text": "很多人第一個反應就是",
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    {
      "start": 621.74,
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      "text": "聽起來很麻煩",
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    {
      "start": 622.94,
      "end": 624.66,
      "text": "但開卡真的是超級簡單",
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    {
      "start": 624.66,
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      "text": "只要一分鐘",
      "chunk": 1,
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    {
      "start": 625.72,
      "end": 627.56,
      "text": "用我資訊欄的連結註冊之後",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "avg_logprob": -0.173674910540742,
      "no_speech_prob": 1.6694012491824672e-11,
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    {
      "start": 627.56,
      "end": 629.16,
      "text": "登入APP只要點派卡",
      "chunk": 1,
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      "avg_logprob": -0.173674910540742,
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    {
      "start": 629.16,
      "end": 630.3,
      "text": "填寫一下基本資料",
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    {
      "start": 630.3,
      "end": 631.36,
      "text": "馬上就開好了",
      "chunk": 1,
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    {
      "start": 631.36,
      "end": 633.7,
      "text": "全音的部分除了看電影買一送一之外",
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      "avg_logprob": -0.173674910540742,
      "no_speech_prob": 1.6694012491824672e-11,
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    {
      "start": 633.7,
      "end": 635.76,
      "text": "還有像是用派卡儲值交通卡",
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    {
      "start": 635.76,
      "end": 637.2,
      "text": "有5%的現金回饋",
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      "avg_logprob": -0.11557614128544645,
      "no_speech_prob": 1.56010343532742e-11,
      "compression_ratio": 1.4707520891364902
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    {
      "start": 637.2,
      "end": 639.2,
      "text": "還有在日本、韓國或者泰國",
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      "avg_logprob": -0.11557614128544645,
      "no_speech_prob": 1.56010343532742e-11,
      "compression_ratio": 1.4707520891364902
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    {
      "start": 639.2,
      "end": 641.86,
      "text": "用派卡消費回饋20%的體驗金",
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      "avg_logprob": -0.11557614128544645,
      "no_speech_prob": 1.56010343532742e-11,
      "compression_ratio": 1.4707520891364902
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    {
      "start": 641.86,
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      "text": "可以拿去體驗派網的產品",
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      "text": "可以再多拿5U的消費體驗金",
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      "text": "1980年代臺灣搶的是同一批人",
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      "text": "新竹科學園區當時沒有去查誰跟誰有關係",
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      "text": "5年免所得稅",
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      "text": "園區裡面蓋好住宅跟國際學校",
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      "text": "讓人自己去算劃不划算",
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      "text": "光是1989年那一年",
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      "text": "就2840個人從美國回來新竹進竹科",
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